Debating the Deindustrialization Narrative
with John McWhorter
One theory about the cause of black poverty states that, when factories that provided good, stable jobs for workers without college degrees left American cities, African Americans were thrown into a cycle of poverty, dependence, and dysfunction. Call it the “deindustrialization narrative.” John isn’t buying it. In fact, he’s been a deindustrialization skeptic for decades. In this clip, we watch ourselves debate this question during our first ever conversation in 2007, and we reopen the issue.
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Mr. McWhorter: if William Julius Wilson decided on a whim to criticize a significant narrative about linguistics based on reading a few studies — a field which, to my knowledge, he has no true expertise — I would take his critique with a grain of salt. So when you make a claim like you did in 2007 and in 2023 that attempts to critique the voluminous body of Mr. Wilson’s social science work, I have to do the same with you.
Thankfully, Mr. Loury defended the “1/3 of the problem” explanation in 2007. It needed to be said.
In 1976 - 1978, as I left high school, I worked in a factory in Houston, TX. Many undereducated and low skilled African American men & women in their 30’s - 60’s worked in the lowest tiers of the jobs in that factory next to me. I had the rest of my life to chart a better course for myself AND my middle class Latino parents (1st generation Mexican Americans) had set an example for me to follow.
I remember always feeling bad for my fellow workers — many of whom were 2x or 3x my age — who saw that job as their sole means of supporting their families. I knew it was just a short stop along the path to my future life.
When that factory closed a decade later, I have no idea what all of those undereducated and low skilled workers did. But I am sure the closing had a catastrophic impact on their lives.
Mr. McWhorter: have you ever toiled away at a factory filled with such people? Or were you lucky enough to have been sheltered from seeing it first hand? If you HAD seen it, I don’t think you would so casually dismiss the economic impact of such factory closings upon those who weren’t; destined for the Ivy League.
Mr. Wilson’s work helped me better understand the arc of the experience of African Americans stuck in the inner city only to see it change as factory jobs went away. Of course, other factors played into the demise of such areas. But it pains me to see Mr. McWhorter cast it away as if it was an insignificant part of the history of the underclass.
What first got my attention on this post was the term "deindustrialization". Of course, there's been no deindustrialization; there is more industry than ever. Where do you think all our stuff comes from, the tooth fairy?
But industry has moved around a lot over the decades, and yes, there has been deindustrialization in a big way in much of America. John summed that up quite well. I know a businessman whose entire business consists of moving entire factories out of the USA and into Mexico. He's been doing it for decades, and he's still moving those factories. Way back in the 1900s both republicans and democrats touted the desirability of NAFTA. One lone voice, Ross Perot, claimed that if NAFTA was enacted, we would hear the giant sucking sound of American jobs going to Mexico. He was right, and we were lied to, again.
But it's not all about blacks, and it's not all about the urban core. I was just thinking earlier today, before I saw this video, that rural blacks are almost completely ignored in the morality play that we call DEI. I grew up in the White suburbs of Boston, but my first real job out of college was teaching science in a rural Ohio school. Yes, there's blacks there. And, even fifty years ago, I saw these small towns struggling to survive as "deindustrialization" passed them by. John, until I saw this video, I didn't know it had a name. So, thanks for that, I guess.
If you don't know Iris Dement, you should. Here is her interpretation of deindustrialization, and what it meant to her town: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9IUj1mDENg