I think John confessed on a recent podcast with Glenn and Matt Taibbi that he wasn't into sports at all, so that probably explains in part why the topic is never broached between Glenn and John. That and the fact that to two Ivy League academics sports might just be too plebian as you say.
In any case, on the entire topic of unfair stereotyping of Black males and that sort of thing, I did find the comparison of perceptions of violence in basketball and football versus perceptions of violence in baseball and hockey to be interesting. If I'm remembering correctly that was one of points raised in the aftermath of the entire Malice in the Palace incident way back in the day. We don't seem to care all that much that in hockey white guys are basically encouraged to fight one another or that even today deliberating throwing a baseball at an opposing batter is considered a legitimate part of the code of honor of MLB if done in retaliation.
So I do think there are instances where legitimate claims can be made that all else being truly equal there's residual bias or negativity towards Blacks relative to non-Blacks. That's why the Roland Fryer study concluding that Blacks were more likely to be treated roughly by the police all else being equal didn't surprise me that much. I think there's a large body of social commentary offered by those like Sherrod and others that highlight the anti-Black biases that might exist in society today.
I guess my own thought has always been that while I certainly can't condone outright bias, I can certainly understand that perceptions and stereotypes don't arise out of a vacuum and that to a non-trivial extent perceptions of particular groups are based off of observed group differences in behaviors and outcomes in the aggregate. This is a point that Glenn has forcefully emphasized as well.
I agree: all the training and social commentary in the world can't completely undo ingrained biases that arise from observed behavior. Particularly when it hinges on some aspect of self-preservation, bias seems like an essential component of human nature. In my experience, new arrivals to the United States harbor stronger biases than native whites (often revealing them matter-of-factly), and I think this is a testament to your claim above.
While anti-black bias is typically invoked as presenting in other groups, I think it would be interesting to explore the stereotypes that black people keep about their own kin. I imagine it's a touchy subject. How do these self-stereotypes affect development and social cohesion within the black community?
I think John confessed on a recent podcast with Glenn and Matt Taibbi that he wasn't into sports at all, so that probably explains in part why the topic is never broached between Glenn and John. That and the fact that to two Ivy League academics sports might just be too plebian as you say.
In any case, on the entire topic of unfair stereotyping of Black males and that sort of thing, I did find the comparison of perceptions of violence in basketball and football versus perceptions of violence in baseball and hockey to be interesting. If I'm remembering correctly that was one of points raised in the aftermath of the entire Malice in the Palace incident way back in the day. We don't seem to care all that much that in hockey white guys are basically encouraged to fight one another or that even today deliberating throwing a baseball at an opposing batter is considered a legitimate part of the code of honor of MLB if done in retaliation.
So I do think there are instances where legitimate claims can be made that all else being truly equal there's residual bias or negativity towards Blacks relative to non-Blacks. That's why the Roland Fryer study concluding that Blacks were more likely to be treated roughly by the police all else being equal didn't surprise me that much. I think there's a large body of social commentary offered by those like Sherrod and others that highlight the anti-Black biases that might exist in society today.
I guess my own thought has always been that while I certainly can't condone outright bias, I can certainly understand that perceptions and stereotypes don't arise out of a vacuum and that to a non-trivial extent perceptions of particular groups are based off of observed group differences in behaviors and outcomes in the aggregate. This is a point that Glenn has forcefully emphasized as well.
Very well said, Yan.
I agree: all the training and social commentary in the world can't completely undo ingrained biases that arise from observed behavior. Particularly when it hinges on some aspect of self-preservation, bias seems like an essential component of human nature. In my experience, new arrivals to the United States harbor stronger biases than native whites (often revealing them matter-of-factly), and I think this is a testament to your claim above.
While anti-black bias is typically invoked as presenting in other groups, I think it would be interesting to explore the stereotypes that black people keep about their own kin. I imagine it's a touchy subject. How do these self-stereotypes affect development and social cohesion within the black community?