Glenn, I think the difference between all the things people do to try and win elections and what Trump did after the election is that all the other actions stop after the election takes place and/or move on to trying to win the next election. In the wake of losing the 2020 election, Trump did everything he could to get states he lost, the vice president and the Congress to declare him the winner even though he clearly lost. If that can't be described as a lack of respect for democracy, I don't know what could be.
I am a Republican that voted against Trump 3 times including the 2016 NY GOP Primary. I thought he would make a bad president, but after he won I hoped he wouldn't be as bad as I feared. In many areas, I (mostly) agreed with what he did. As a Republican my whole adult life, I didn't want to vote against a GOP nominee. There were times I began to think I could vote for him until some new outrageous attack on someone or something spewed from his oral orifice and I was reminded why I couldn't vote for him. The mainstream media and the Democrats were vicious in their attacks and coverage of Trump. Trump brought it all on himself. It's not that he didn't deserve the attacks. But the press should have kept their coverage more objective. Because MSM coverage was slanted against him, Trump was able use the “unfair” coverage to rev up his base. I also think the Democrats had a “political party that cried fascist” problem. My entire adult life, I've heard Democrats slam Republicans with unfair and even ridiculous attacks. Remember, then vice-president Biden told an African-American audience that Mitt Romney wanted to “put y'all back in chains.” Mitt Effin Romney!!! I think that when Trump came around, even though he deserved many of the vicious attacks on him, most Republican voters were accustomed to ignoring those charges. I really hope that someday before I die I can vote for a Republican for president. I am not all that optimistic on that front.
As a son of immigrants, I was not bothered by Trumps remarks about immigrants from Mexico or other countries what Trump did was let people know he wanted people 100% committed to the United States not their race or ethnic origin. America First sounds great and relevant today another positive note about Trump was he put the US economy on turbo. Trump's economic policy approach brought prosperity and stability to every corner of the country today under democratic administration our country has fallen into an "economic funk" stagflation like the 1970s . I would not vote for Trump today or tomorrow as I prefer others like the governor of Florida.
Your first paragraph perfectly encapsulates my reaction when Glenn said "people are trying to win elections." No doubt, but we're not talking about tactics during a campaign. It's certainly fair to question Trump's commitment to democracy when he says (as he did in 2016) that he'd respect the election outcome *if he wins.* As for 2020, we're spoiled for choice, but I think his chat with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is a good representative example. Either I'm missing something, or Glenn is, I don't know.
The objective data about Georgia is not clear to me. Now, I am willing to listen to facts that others submit. My mind is not closed. However, I have never read a reasonable explanation of the video of ballots that were taken from under tables after election staff were sent home because of a plumbing problem. To my knowledge, there never has been a rigorous review of events about this, nor about vote count. "2,000 Mules," raises other questions. Thus, I think the election result for Georgia should not have been certified. And, I am perfectly willing to accept the conclusion that Trump lost in this state ---if the objective data and numbers support this.
Trump's commitment to democracy? I think he is -- if the election is conducted in a fair manner. In what other arena has Trump acted as a dictator? He certainly did not ignore Congressional restraints to build the wall without regard to appropriations.
I am sure that there is at least some fraud in most elections. For example, my Dad voted more than 9 months after he died. I know this because "he" had already signed his name in the voter roll when I went to vote that year. That's why I strongly believe ID should be required when voting. But it is highly unlikely that "my dad's" vote affected any election. But maybe my dad wasn't the only zombie to vote that day. But in order to challenge an election result successfully, you need evidence. Trump's lawyers were given multiple opportunities to present evidence before judges that had been appointed by Trump but had nothing. Nor am I aware of any such evidence being found in the ensuing 2 years. I think all that supports my saying he "clearly lost."
It seems no judge or court wanted to accept the responsibility of challenging the populist rush to judgement that Biden won. IN NO COURT was there a full review of data. IN NO venue was the process of discovery allowed. That is more than unfortunate as many questions about the accuracy and legitimacy of the process remain in Wisconsin and probably Arizona.
Glenn, I think the difference between all the things people do to try and win elections and what Trump did after the election is that all the other actions stop after the election takes place and/or move on to trying to win the next election. In the wake of losing the 2020 election, Trump did everything he could to get states he lost, the vice president and the Congress to declare him the winner even though he clearly lost. If that can't be described as a lack of respect for democracy, I don't know what could be.
I am a Republican that voted against Trump 3 times including the 2016 NY GOP Primary. I thought he would make a bad president, but after he won I hoped he wouldn't be as bad as I feared. In many areas, I (mostly) agreed with what he did. As a Republican my whole adult life, I didn't want to vote against a GOP nominee. There were times I began to think I could vote for him until some new outrageous attack on someone or something spewed from his oral orifice and I was reminded why I couldn't vote for him. The mainstream media and the Democrats were vicious in their attacks and coverage of Trump. Trump brought it all on himself. It's not that he didn't deserve the attacks. But the press should have kept their coverage more objective. Because MSM coverage was slanted against him, Trump was able use the “unfair” coverage to rev up his base. I also think the Democrats had a “political party that cried fascist” problem. My entire adult life, I've heard Democrats slam Republicans with unfair and even ridiculous attacks. Remember, then vice-president Biden told an African-American audience that Mitt Romney wanted to “put y'all back in chains.” Mitt Effin Romney!!! I think that when Trump came around, even though he deserved many of the vicious attacks on him, most Republican voters were accustomed to ignoring those charges. I really hope that someday before I die I can vote for a Republican for president. I am not all that optimistic on that front.
As a son of immigrants, I was not bothered by Trumps remarks about immigrants from Mexico or other countries what Trump did was let people know he wanted people 100% committed to the United States not their race or ethnic origin. America First sounds great and relevant today another positive note about Trump was he put the US economy on turbo. Trump's economic policy approach brought prosperity and stability to every corner of the country today under democratic administration our country has fallen into an "economic funk" stagflation like the 1970s . I would not vote for Trump today or tomorrow as I prefer others like the governor of Florida.
Your first paragraph perfectly encapsulates my reaction when Glenn said "people are trying to win elections." No doubt, but we're not talking about tactics during a campaign. It's certainly fair to question Trump's commitment to democracy when he says (as he did in 2016) that he'd respect the election outcome *if he wins.* As for 2020, we're spoiled for choice, but I think his chat with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is a good representative example. Either I'm missing something, or Glenn is, I don't know.
The objective data about Georgia is not clear to me. Now, I am willing to listen to facts that others submit. My mind is not closed. However, I have never read a reasonable explanation of the video of ballots that were taken from under tables after election staff were sent home because of a plumbing problem. To my knowledge, there never has been a rigorous review of events about this, nor about vote count. "2,000 Mules," raises other questions. Thus, I think the election result for Georgia should not have been certified. And, I am perfectly willing to accept the conclusion that Trump lost in this state ---if the objective data and numbers support this.
Trump's commitment to democracy? I think he is -- if the election is conducted in a fair manner. In what other arena has Trump acted as a dictator? He certainly did not ignore Congressional restraints to build the wall without regard to appropriations.
He did not "clearly" lose; OTOH, i cannot validate a win. Objectively, we do not know the degree to which fraud affected the outcome.
I am sure that there is at least some fraud in most elections. For example, my Dad voted more than 9 months after he died. I know this because "he" had already signed his name in the voter roll when I went to vote that year. That's why I strongly believe ID should be required when voting. But it is highly unlikely that "my dad's" vote affected any election. But maybe my dad wasn't the only zombie to vote that day. But in order to challenge an election result successfully, you need evidence. Trump's lawyers were given multiple opportunities to present evidence before judges that had been appointed by Trump but had nothing. Nor am I aware of any such evidence being found in the ensuing 2 years. I think all that supports my saying he "clearly lost."
It seems no judge or court wanted to accept the responsibility of challenging the populist rush to judgement that Biden won. IN NO COURT was there a full review of data. IN NO venue was the process of discovery allowed. That is more than unfortunate as many questions about the accuracy and legitimacy of the process remain in Wisconsin and probably Arizona.