I think that is clearly true that identity can get in the way, but that wasn’t quite where I was going. I tried to pick a realistic and concrete example of a situation and reaction without the burden of that being an established “identity”, sort of like Star Trek exploring our world by putting it in an outer space context. Clearly not doing as well as I’d like. It was an example in my own life, but I’m not trying to make it about me.
But let’s say it’s me, since that’s where we are. There is a difference between being affirmed that my treatment was because of an identity (young female) and being encouraged to think of it as a specific incident makes a difference (I was encouraged to see it both ways over the years)... It especially makes a difference when it happens dozens of times, in different situations and with different people. It’s really easy to get a chip on your shoulder if you let it. This is objectively borne out by the number of young women who leave STEM fields in the first few years of their careers (I believe in the early 2000s it was as high as 50%). And yet, there is not an identity of “young females in STEM”. If that became an entrenched identity, I think it would only serve to make the problem worse. And then who benefits? And how do you ever move past it?
I don’t know if that made it more clear, or not. But to take *me* out of it: If you hold on strongly to an identity that is forged as part of being a group that is discriminated against, how do you let go of the idea that you are discriminated against because of your membership in the group (ie bias narrative)?
You ask a good and tough question at the end of your reply. We can never know with certainty why others act the way they do or why they react to us the way they do. It takes a good deal of wisdom and maturity to avoid immediately suspecting the worse when things don't go well when we interact with others. This is especially true for young people.
Friends of mine have wrestled with finding ways to make young female engineers feel accepted and appreciated at work. Mentoring seems to help. So does frequent and constructive feedback from bosses. That said, nothing is foolproof.
My sense is that the bias narrative loses strength when there's clear evidence that it's wrong, we have faith that bias will be addressed when it occurs, or we can see examples of people who share our "identity" but are thriving.
I appreciate you saying you try, but that really shouldn’t be necessary. In my experience there were very overtly inappropriate situations that made everyone in the room uncomfortable (and went out of their way to say so). But that is not something where 80% being normal humans erases the 20% that are just unprofessional jerks… once again though, that is not my point. Let me say it another way… for me I wanted to be seen as an engineer and all of my issues were when I was instead perceived of primarily as a young female. If I internalized that I was a female as my primary identity I would see the world through that lens and not as an engineer in an office. I was given lots of reasons to see myself in that gendered way, but I resented that expectation too much to do it. Your data on “blackness” indicates “black” is the primary identity. In identifying that way so strongly, all the bad things that happen are because of the “black” identity and not because of anything else. To me, that impedes progress. Does that make sense? If not, I should probably stop, though I do really enjoy beating metaphorical dead horses.
I think that is clearly true that identity can get in the way, but that wasn’t quite where I was going. I tried to pick a realistic and concrete example of a situation and reaction without the burden of that being an established “identity”, sort of like Star Trek exploring our world by putting it in an outer space context. Clearly not doing as well as I’d like. It was an example in my own life, but I’m not trying to make it about me.
But let’s say it’s me, since that’s where we are. There is a difference between being affirmed that my treatment was because of an identity (young female) and being encouraged to think of it as a specific incident makes a difference (I was encouraged to see it both ways over the years)... It especially makes a difference when it happens dozens of times, in different situations and with different people. It’s really easy to get a chip on your shoulder if you let it. This is objectively borne out by the number of young women who leave STEM fields in the first few years of their careers (I believe in the early 2000s it was as high as 50%). And yet, there is not an identity of “young females in STEM”. If that became an entrenched identity, I think it would only serve to make the problem worse. And then who benefits? And how do you ever move past it?
I don’t know if that made it more clear, or not. But to take *me* out of it: If you hold on strongly to an identity that is forged as part of being a group that is discriminated against, how do you let go of the idea that you are discriminated against because of your membership in the group (ie bias narrative)?
You ask a good and tough question at the end of your reply. We can never know with certainty why others act the way they do or why they react to us the way they do. It takes a good deal of wisdom and maturity to avoid immediately suspecting the worse when things don't go well when we interact with others. This is especially true for young people.
Friends of mine have wrestled with finding ways to make young female engineers feel accepted and appreciated at work. Mentoring seems to help. So does frequent and constructive feedback from bosses. That said, nothing is foolproof.
My sense is that the bias narrative loses strength when there's clear evidence that it's wrong, we have faith that bias will be addressed when it occurs, or we can see examples of people who share our "identity" but are thriving.
I appreciate you saying you try, but that really shouldn’t be necessary. In my experience there were very overtly inappropriate situations that made everyone in the room uncomfortable (and went out of their way to say so). But that is not something where 80% being normal humans erases the 20% that are just unprofessional jerks… once again though, that is not my point. Let me say it another way… for me I wanted to be seen as an engineer and all of my issues were when I was instead perceived of primarily as a young female. If I internalized that I was a female as my primary identity I would see the world through that lens and not as an engineer in an office. I was given lots of reasons to see myself in that gendered way, but I resented that expectation too much to do it. Your data on “blackness” indicates “black” is the primary identity. In identifying that way so strongly, all the bad things that happen are because of the “black” identity and not because of anything else. To me, that impedes progress. Does that make sense? If not, I should probably stop, though I do really enjoy beating metaphorical dead horses.
Thanks Amy. I understand your position and appreciate your feedback.