John McWhorter is back for the latest installment of our ongoing discussion. After a long period of consensus, John and I are finding ourselves divided on the issues that are dividing much of the rest of the country: Gaza and Trump. The larger question is whether these issues and other fracture points are isolated or indications of larger fault lines in previously stable political coalitions and sensibilities. Eventually, Trump will leave office and the Gaza issue will settle into some kind of stability. Will the US revert to the status quo ante? Or are we entering an era of new political alignments?
We discuss John’s view that Zohran Mamdani’s win in the Democratic mayoral primaries was fueled by enthusiasm for his youth, skin color, and ethnic identity. I ask if his win isn’t part of a larger shift in the sensibilities of voters, one partially fueled by the US political establishment’s support for the Gaza War. If that’s the case, does Trump have reason to fear other Mamdani-style candidates? That’s a question for the future. For now, the president is having a lot of success enacting his agenda, one that—with some major caveats—I think isn’t all that bad. John thinks I’m being seduced by Trump’s theatrics and asks what Republican presidents and candidates have left in the way of a legacy. After all, the conservative movement of today is quite different than the one that elevated Ronald Reagan. William F. Buckley is long gone, and so are many of that era’s other intellectuals, like Stephan and Abigail Thernstrom, whom both John and I knew well.
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0:00 Zohran Mamdani’s win in the NYC Democratic primaries
12:07 Ground News ad
14:05 The War on Terror and the War in Gaza
28:54 Should Trump fear Mamdani?
32:02 Glenn: Trump is running the table
42:26 John: Glenn, you’re getting caught up in the Trump Show
48:05 Buckley, Reagan, Goldwater, and the legacy of conservatism
53:56 Glenn’s encounters with Willian F. Buckley
59:30 Remembering Stephan and Abigail Thernstrom
Recorded July 7, 2025
Links and Readings
John’s NYT column, “Wokeness Will Always Be with Us”
Adam Clayton Powell’s “What’s in Your Hand” speech
Sam Tannenhaus’s new book, Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America
Glenn’s 1991 appearance on Firing Line
Stephan and Abigail Thernstrom’s book, America in Black and White: One Nation, Indivisible
Glenn’s 1997 Atlantic review of America in Black and White
