Earlier this month, I recorded a conversation with my friend Patricia Agupusi, assistant professor at Worcester Polytechnic Institute and an expert on insurgencies, political violence, and state capture, among other topics. She has lived and worked extensively in Nigeria, where her fieldwork included interviewing Nigerians displaced by political, ethnic, and religious violence. When I asked Patricia to come on the show, I was seeking some background on the Trump administration’s statements about anti-Christian violence perpetrated by Boko Haram in the northern part of the country. I suspected that the situation, while undoubtedly dire for Christians, was more complex than the White House’s messaging made it sound.
My suspicions turned out to be correct. In this episode, Patricia offers a nuanced account of terrorism, religious radicalism, interethnic conflict, and government corruption and neglect that has led to the deaths and displacement not only of many Christians in northern Nigeria, but of many Muslims as well. Patricia provides a rich account of the region and its history. It was recorded weeks before the US conducted an aerial strike on Sokoto, a predominately Muslim state that many have described as an unusual choice, if the goal was to inflict damage on major terrorist networks.
In this conversation, Patricia expressed skepticism at the efficacy of US military intervention. The strike seems to have done little to change her mind. In an email to me sent after the attack, she wrote:
From a strategic standpoint, the strike appears largely symbolic. Rather than degrading armed group capacity, it risks diminishing the perceived deterrent power of U.S. intervention, potentially emboldening non-state armed actors. The Nigerian government has longstanding intelligence on the locations of these groups, which raises questions about why the operation targeted unoccupied areas. The situation gives the impression that both the U.S. and Nigerian governments may be managing political optics rather than pursuing a sustained effort to dismantle terrorist networks. I remain unconvinced that there is a genuine commitment, at this stage, to decisively neutralize these groups.
This episode provides the kind of background on the intervention that is, in my view, sorely lacking in major coverage of Nigeria. Patricia’s account underlines just how misunderstood the country’s problems are, and what kind of US action could be more effective (and welcome) than the course we’re currently pursuing.
More on my conversation with Patricia Agupusi below. But first, I'd like to tell you about our long-time partner, Ground News.
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0:00 Intro: Last week’s military strikes in Nigeria
00:36 Getting beneath the headlines in northern Nigeria
3:55 What is Boko Haram?
4:28 Childcare intermission: How Glenn and Patricia started working together
7:19 Boko Haram’s attack and recruitment strategies
11:44 Patricia: Boko Haram targets both Christians and Muslims
13:33 Ground News ad
15:25 The complex religious demographics of northern Nigeria
19:16 The history of Nigerian jihad
23:27 The state’s complacent reaction to anti-Christian violence
33:57 Patricia’s fieldwork with internally displaced Nigerians
36:16 Patricia: Fear and government dysfunction, not poverty, motivate people to join Boko Haram
41:14 The surprising popularity of US intervention among Nigerians
43:32 Patricia: If the US wants to help, it should sanction politicians and their families
54:10 The pointlessness of US military intervention
58:01 The best case scenario for Nigeria’s next decade
Recorded December 4, 2025
