My personal experience: I lived in India when it was a socialistic country until the 90s. (Vastly different situation today now that the markets have opened up). I remember having ration cards for rice, lentils, oil, you name it. The quality of goods at the government ration shops was so riddled with vermin that most people went there as a last resort. Everything was nationalized: cars, banks, there was no choice to speak of. Corruption and bribery were rife and present at every level of life. Phone lines had a waiting period of 2 years. There would be long lines for clean water. Throw in affirmative action on steroids, and you can see why Indians left the country in droves to settle overseas. They called it the "brain drain". Yet, all of this would have been worth it if only socialism had guaranteed that the poor and the needy were protected and provided basic needs. But this was not the case. The poor were REALLY poor, in a way you don't see these days, wearing rags and scrounging for food and water. Once India threw off the mantle of socialism and proceeded to open up its markets, there was a sea change. The grinding poverty I once saw has all but disappeared, and there is no "ppor class" any more, more of a lower-middle class.
I know what I saw and experienced, and no one can convince me socialism works.
Seems like the problem is human nature, specifically greed. In a socialist system to greed leads to corruption, but in a capitalist system, maybe the greed will lead to innovation.
Something to consider is that maybe there is a better way to introduce socialism into markets. For example, as I understand it German companies are required to have stakeholders on their boards, an employee representative and a local industry or environmental representative for example. Perhaps the goal should be to try new things to make things better, not feel constrained to choose between tried options that all have shortcomings.
My personal experience: I lived in India when it was a socialistic country until the 90s. (Vastly different situation today now that the markets have opened up). I remember having ration cards for rice, lentils, oil, you name it. The quality of goods at the government ration shops was so riddled with vermin that most people went there as a last resort. Everything was nationalized: cars, banks, there was no choice to speak of. Corruption and bribery were rife and present at every level of life. Phone lines had a waiting period of 2 years. There would be long lines for clean water. Throw in affirmative action on steroids, and you can see why Indians left the country in droves to settle overseas. They called it the "brain drain". Yet, all of this would have been worth it if only socialism had guaranteed that the poor and the needy were protected and provided basic needs. But this was not the case. The poor were REALLY poor, in a way you don't see these days, wearing rags and scrounging for food and water. Once India threw off the mantle of socialism and proceeded to open up its markets, there was a sea change. The grinding poverty I once saw has all but disappeared, and there is no "ppor class" any more, more of a lower-middle class.
I know what I saw and experienced, and no one can convince me socialism works.
Seems like the problem is human nature, specifically greed. In a socialist system to greed leads to corruption, but in a capitalist system, maybe the greed will lead to innovation.
Something to consider is that maybe there is a better way to introduce socialism into markets. For example, as I understand it German companies are required to have stakeholders on their boards, an employee representative and a local industry or environmental representative for example. Perhaps the goal should be to try new things to make things better, not feel constrained to choose between tried options that all have shortcomings.