Thanks for your reply. Please watch the conversation between John and Glenn again and listen carefully to John's assertions from 16 years ago and today.
Just before the three minute mark John from 2007 says that deindustrialization "doesn't seem to explain anything." John from 2023 goes on to say that the best way to account for the effects of deindustrialization is, "It didn't help that low skill jobs moved away." He also asserts if the only issue was that factory jobs moved away that people would have moved or set up businesses the way immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean often do. I listened carefully and offered a different perspective on these things in my post.
As for "emotional" responses, listen carefully to what John said just before the seven minute mark. He doesn't want to believe that people didn't respond well to deindustrialization. He doesn't want to believe that the exodus of the black middle class affected the people left behind. He says around the 7:35 mark that some of his reaction is "visceral."
Listen to the fuller conversation and John says around the 29 minute mark that he spent a year doing an analysis of Indianapolis data but has spent less than three hours there:
There are people who believe they can accurately assess economic and cultural shifts this way. I write from the perspective of someone who thinks you can't know a place or a people unless you spend significant time on the ground. I also explained in my first response to you why I don't think Indianapolis is a good case study if you want to understand the impacts of deindustrialization on Black America.
I've spent time in Akron, Birmingham, Detroit, Gary and Indianapolis. No disrespect to John, but my time in these places, combined with having spent many years in the manufacturing space, gives me a perspective he doesn't have. I shared my perspectives on deindustrialized cities and included data to flesh out my points. There's room for many perspectives when it comes to public policy debates so let folks read both essays and draw their own conclusions.
"I shared my perspectives on deindustrialized cities and included data to flesh out my points."
You did, and you did that very well. I appreciate that.
"There's room for many perspectives when it comes to public policy debates so let folks read both essays and draw their own conclusions."
I completely agree.
I am glad that John's two earlier books have elicited a lively response in these comments. I enjoyed the tightly structured arguments John makes in his writing.
I plan to move on to "Woke Racism" to see what John has to say about more recent developments.
Thanks for your reply. Please watch the conversation between John and Glenn again and listen carefully to John's assertions from 16 years ago and today.
https://glennloury.substack.com/p/debating-the-deindustrialization
Just before the three minute mark John from 2007 says that deindustrialization "doesn't seem to explain anything." John from 2023 goes on to say that the best way to account for the effects of deindustrialization is, "It didn't help that low skill jobs moved away." He also asserts if the only issue was that factory jobs moved away that people would have moved or set up businesses the way immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean often do. I listened carefully and offered a different perspective on these things in my post.
As for "emotional" responses, listen carefully to what John said just before the seven minute mark. He doesn't want to believe that people didn't respond well to deindustrialization. He doesn't want to believe that the exodus of the black middle class affected the people left behind. He says around the 7:35 mark that some of his reaction is "visceral."
Listen to the fuller conversation and John says around the 29 minute mark that he spent a year doing an analysis of Indianapolis data but has spent less than three hours there:
https://glennloury.substack.com/p/john-mcwhorter-sixteen-years-of-the#details
There are people who believe they can accurately assess economic and cultural shifts this way. I write from the perspective of someone who thinks you can't know a place or a people unless you spend significant time on the ground. I also explained in my first response to you why I don't think Indianapolis is a good case study if you want to understand the impacts of deindustrialization on Black America.
I've spent time in Akron, Birmingham, Detroit, Gary and Indianapolis. No disrespect to John, but my time in these places, combined with having spent many years in the manufacturing space, gives me a perspective he doesn't have. I shared my perspectives on deindustrialized cities and included data to flesh out my points. There's room for many perspectives when it comes to public policy debates so let folks read both essays and draw their own conclusions.
Mr. Roscoe,
Thank you for your response.
"I shared my perspectives on deindustrialized cities and included data to flesh out my points."
You did, and you did that very well. I appreciate that.
"There's room for many perspectives when it comes to public policy debates so let folks read both essays and draw their own conclusions."
I completely agree.
I am glad that John's two earlier books have elicited a lively response in these comments. I enjoyed the tightly structured arguments John makes in his writing.
I plan to move on to "Woke Racism" to see what John has to say about more recent developments.