If we agree that racial discrimination is wrong, then we must understand that the government meddling either for or against discrimination is wrong. Government is force, and the hallmark of civil society is choice. I'll give two examples:
During the Articles of Confederation, six black slaves sued for their freedom in six separate cases, and were successful. After the Constitution enshrined black slaves as worth 2/3 of white votes, but accruing to the slave owner, no slaves sued or were freed of their own choice.
After Jim Crow laws were repealed, and before the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the people (black and white) were on their own to find their own way into civility. The CRA has actually slowed that process, and in some ways reversed it.
I am white, and I was raised to believe that a civil society is a society of chosen association, and that association can be race-based, religion-based, friendship-based. No one has the right to force anyone else to associate with anyone, nor anyone associate with me.
Businesses or groups that routinely shun people based on irrational standards, lessen the pool of intelligent people who could enrich their life with wisdom and kindness.
My Romanian grandmother gave me the strength to survive prejudice and discrimination (of which there was always plenty). She would say, "They're just jealous." The implication was, "Get over it, and you can triumph over it." I believe that.
If you truly want a color-blind America, not in the sense that we fail to see the individual qualities of people, but that the government is silent on these matters, because if we're all equal under the law, our individual, immutable characteristics don't matter to the law. The law must be silent on discrimination if you really want to diffuse this bomb.
The argument so far …I’m white. I got mine, you Blacks got yours to get. If businesses choose to discriminate, that is their affair. This is the message of Barry Goldwater’s Presidential campaign. We need reminders of what Conservatives believe.
Thomas Sowell is Booker T. Washington 2.0. He is a Conservative hero in the same vein as Candace Owens. These discussions are fascinating.
Hey Robert, there are plenty of people of all races who think “I got mine!” I wouldn’t think of myself as that type, as I believe taxes should be higher, mine specifically even. But I found myself basically sounding like that talking with a lovely young black man working a menial job (transporting patients in the hospital as a contractor) who wanted to “burn it all down”. I was lucky, worked hard, and made good choices so my family could be safe and comfortable. I want that for everyone, granted, but I don’t want to lose what I have. I suspect even the poorest don’t want to give up what they have, they’d say take from that other guy with more… would you want to give up what you have? Just to say… it’s easy to dismiss people and mischaracterize them.
Wealth is a mindset as much or more than a bank account. The "burn it all down" crowd would take yours and just add it to the pile. The politics of envy is no respecter of person or color, anyone can be poor of character.
Enjoy what you have earned and do what you can to help others earn theirs. That will be empowering for both of you and you both will be richer.
My assessment applies to what I see presented by the modern Conservative movement. My current solution is to vote as many of them out of office as I can. Conservatives are a threat to my children’s education and if they had their way would take away my ability to vote. I do not see Conservatives fighting against the racists in their ranks. I don’t think that I am mischaracterizing Conservatives.
As for the young man who wants to burn it all down, I strongly disagree with his position. I think voting can still make a difference. I do not see Conservatives creating a situation where that young man can advance. A Conservative icon is suing a venture capital group formed to provide funding for Black and Latino women. Conservatives go out of their way to make themselves my enemy. My solution is Vote.
Edit to add
DeSantis allows children to be exposed to Prager U
Conservatives are silent
The Governor of Arkansas bans AP African American studies two days before schools open
Republicans are silent
Alabama ignores a Supreme Court ruling on voting districts
Republicans are silent
The Governor of Texas puts up barbed wire to injure immigrants
I don’t disagree with your take on modern conservatives. My point is more that we need to be clear about what we are talking about. “Burn it all down” is a feeling of frustration on both sides of the political spectrum who see what others have as unfairly theirs or unearned. “I got mine” is a retreat from public discourse fueled, in my opinion, by a similar sense that our problems (maybe can but definitely) *won’t* be solved by government action. I agree on the importance of our civic voice and voting: I just also hope we will all educate ourselves about different perspectives and impacts before we do, so our vote represents both our personal but also our societal interests. Do you know what I mean?
Burn it all down makes no sense. Conservatives are the group that openly states government doesn’t work. They then run for office, obstruct and prove that government doesn’t work. The only solution is to vote for the person who is not a Conservative. Conservatives are not going to educate themselves. Conservatives want an uneducated public. What message do you have to change the Conservative mind?
Edit to add:
Kumbaya is not going to have any impact on Conservations. Liberals and Independents are the only option to avoid authoritarian government.
The best thing about this site is that Conservatives are revealing their beliefs to the public. Usually they keep the quiet part to themselves. This is a goldmine.
Edit to add:
Conservatives like to post things like “Kamala is Wrong again” or whine about “Woke Racism”, but the public notes the silence of Conservatives on the bigotry and racism within their own ranks. They can have a more civilized version of it in a Presidential candidate who told Don Lemon the Civil War was fought so Blacks could have access to guns and Juneteenth is a “useless” holiday, but we know who the red meat is geared to attract.
Conservatives align themselves who Proud Boys and then feign surprise when caught.
We have lots of Romanians living in Georgia. They seem to stick to themselves. I don't find them to be like the antebellum Southern crackers. Antebellum Southern cracker culture emanated from the old cracker culture in Northern England, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland. Thomas Sowell has written that the antebellum Southern cracker culture negatively impacted African descendants. Notably, the blacks from the Caribbean and Nigeria, not having been exposed to antebellum Southern cracker culture, have prospered in America (e.g., creating good businesses, etc.).
If we agree that racial discrimination is wrong, then we must understand that the government meddling either for or against discrimination is wrong. Government is force, and the hallmark of civil society is choice. I'll give two examples:
During the Articles of Confederation, six black slaves sued for their freedom in six separate cases, and were successful. After the Constitution enshrined black slaves as worth 2/3 of white votes, but accruing to the slave owner, no slaves sued or were freed of their own choice.
After Jim Crow laws were repealed, and before the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the people (black and white) were on their own to find their own way into civility. The CRA has actually slowed that process, and in some ways reversed it.
I am white, and I was raised to believe that a civil society is a society of chosen association, and that association can be race-based, religion-based, friendship-based. No one has the right to force anyone else to associate with anyone, nor anyone associate with me.
Businesses or groups that routinely shun people based on irrational standards, lessen the pool of intelligent people who could enrich their life with wisdom and kindness.
My Romanian grandmother gave me the strength to survive prejudice and discrimination (of which there was always plenty). She would say, "They're just jealous." The implication was, "Get over it, and you can triumph over it." I believe that.
If you truly want a color-blind America, not in the sense that we fail to see the individual qualities of people, but that the government is silent on these matters, because if we're all equal under the law, our individual, immutable characteristics don't matter to the law. The law must be silent on discrimination if you really want to diffuse this bomb.
Anglo-Saxons eventually allowed the Romanians (slavs) to have white status, just like the Italians and Irish. Lol!
I think we could be friends, which each of us telling the other he is full of shit!
The argument so far …I’m white. I got mine, you Blacks got yours to get. If businesses choose to discriminate, that is their affair. This is the message of Barry Goldwater’s Presidential campaign. We need reminders of what Conservatives believe.
Thomas Sowell is Booker T. Washington 2.0. He is a Conservative hero in the same vein as Candace Owens. These discussions are fascinating.
Hey Robert, there are plenty of people of all races who think “I got mine!” I wouldn’t think of myself as that type, as I believe taxes should be higher, mine specifically even. But I found myself basically sounding like that talking with a lovely young black man working a menial job (transporting patients in the hospital as a contractor) who wanted to “burn it all down”. I was lucky, worked hard, and made good choices so my family could be safe and comfortable. I want that for everyone, granted, but I don’t want to lose what I have. I suspect even the poorest don’t want to give up what they have, they’d say take from that other guy with more… would you want to give up what you have? Just to say… it’s easy to dismiss people and mischaracterize them.
Wealth is a mindset as much or more than a bank account. The "burn it all down" crowd would take yours and just add it to the pile. The politics of envy is no respecter of person or color, anyone can be poor of character.
Enjoy what you have earned and do what you can to help others earn theirs. That will be empowering for both of you and you both will be richer.
My assessment applies to what I see presented by the modern Conservative movement. My current solution is to vote as many of them out of office as I can. Conservatives are a threat to my children’s education and if they had their way would take away my ability to vote. I do not see Conservatives fighting against the racists in their ranks. I don’t think that I am mischaracterizing Conservatives.
As for the young man who wants to burn it all down, I strongly disagree with his position. I think voting can still make a difference. I do not see Conservatives creating a situation where that young man can advance. A Conservative icon is suing a venture capital group formed to provide funding for Black and Latino women. Conservatives go out of their way to make themselves my enemy. My solution is Vote.
Edit to add
DeSantis allows children to be exposed to Prager U
Conservatives are silent
The Governor of Arkansas bans AP African American studies two days before schools open
Republicans are silent
Alabama ignores a Supreme Court ruling on voting districts
Republicans are silent
The Governor of Texas puts up barbed wire to injure immigrants
Republicans are silent
The list goes on and on.
I don’t disagree with your take on modern conservatives. My point is more that we need to be clear about what we are talking about. “Burn it all down” is a feeling of frustration on both sides of the political spectrum who see what others have as unfairly theirs or unearned. “I got mine” is a retreat from public discourse fueled, in my opinion, by a similar sense that our problems (maybe can but definitely) *won’t* be solved by government action. I agree on the importance of our civic voice and voting: I just also hope we will all educate ourselves about different perspectives and impacts before we do, so our vote represents both our personal but also our societal interests. Do you know what I mean?
Burn it all down makes no sense. Conservatives are the group that openly states government doesn’t work. They then run for office, obstruct and prove that government doesn’t work. The only solution is to vote for the person who is not a Conservative. Conservatives are not going to educate themselves. Conservatives want an uneducated public. What message do you have to change the Conservative mind?
Edit to add:
Kumbaya is not going to have any impact on Conservations. Liberals and Independents are the only option to avoid authoritarian government.
"I got mine!" I would hear this coming from my white subordinate staff regularly. Lol!
For Sowell the free market should have free reign. Chattel slavery and monopolies are aberrations.
A criticism of Sowell:
https://dawsonvosburg.medium.com/whats-wrong-with-thomas-sowell-464baab5978e
Did Thomas Sowell marry a white woman? I couldn't find any reliable information about this. He has been quite secretive about his personal life.
I could not find any real information.
The best thing about this site is that Conservatives are revealing their beliefs to the public. Usually they keep the quiet part to themselves. This is a goldmine.
Edit to add:
Conservatives like to post things like “Kamala is Wrong again” or whine about “Woke Racism”, but the public notes the silence of Conservatives on the bigotry and racism within their own ranks. They can have a more civilized version of it in a Presidential candidate who told Don Lemon the Civil War was fought so Blacks could have access to guns and Juneteenth is a “useless” holiday, but we know who the red meat is geared to attract.
Conservatives align themselves who Proud Boys and then feign surprise when caught.
We have lots of Romanians living in Georgia. They seem to stick to themselves. I don't find them to be like the antebellum Southern crackers. Antebellum Southern cracker culture emanated from the old cracker culture in Northern England, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland. Thomas Sowell has written that the antebellum Southern cracker culture negatively impacted African descendants. Notably, the blacks from the Caribbean and Nigeria, not having been exposed to antebellum Southern cracker culture, have prospered in America (e.g., creating good businesses, etc.).