When we think about the nation’s racial history, we often envision a linear path, one that, admittedly, begins in a shameful period but moves unerringly in a single direction—toward equality. As if we’re riding a Whiggish escalator, the narrative of racial progress starts with slavery, ascends to the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation, speeds past segregation and Jim Crow to the victories of the civil-rights movement, and then drops us off in 2008 for Barack Obama’s election. Many people asserted at the time that America had become a “postracial” society, or was at least getting close—maybe one more short escalator ride away. This redemptive narrative not only smooths over the past but smooths over what is yet to come: It holds out the promise of an almost predestined, naturally occurring future that will be even more just and egalitarian.
For the past several years, I, along with my Yale colleague Michael W. Kraus and our students, have been examining perceptions of racial economic inequality—its extent and persistence, decade by decade. In a 2019 study, using a dozen specific moments between 1963 and 2016, we compared perceptions of racial wealth inequality over time with actual data on racial wealth inequality. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the respondents in our study significantly overestimated the wealth of Black families relative to that of white families. In 1963, the median Black family had about 5 percent as much wealth as the median white family. Respondents said close to 50 percent. For 2016, the respondents estimated Black wealth to be 90 percent that of whites. The correct answer for that year was about 10 percent.
The mythology of racial progress is corrosive in countless ways. It provides a reason to blame the victim: If we’re converging on equality, then those left behind must not be trying. And it diffuses moral responsibility for actively and significantly reforming the American system: If we’re converging on equality anyway, then why do we need laws and other measures to promote it?
"begins in a shameful period but moves unerringly in a single direction"
Unerringly? No educated person believes that.
For better or worse, this author sounds very typical.
"It provides a reason to blame the victim", "it diffuses moral responsibility for actively and significantly reforming the American system"
Pretty reductive stuff if you ask me.
She appears to define racial progress as something mainly or solely based on economic *equality*. She's free to define racial progress however she wishes. But: (A) I think that's a mistake. (B) Her takes obscure too many other truths, and thus, various potential solutions.
Interesting stuff. Frankly, it was way more positive than I anticipated. The central message I received was that the vast majority of African-Americans were (generally) content with their lives and potential, but increasingly anxious about the bizarre state of the White right.
The respondents also expressed genuine concern about *long-term* economic mobility. That is to say, getting ahead today is a more difficult proposition than a generation or so ago.
I get all of that, 100%. You don't have to be Black to get this.
Even during the Trump years, the FBI was consistent about who posed the biggest terrorist threat in America: White nationalists. (Needless to say, Jan6th didn't help alleviate such concerns. But that's another subject.)
As for economics: When longshot presidential candidate Andrew Yang touted Universal Basic Income, the concept resonated with all kinds of people because folks of every background recognize we are living in very different times.
I think that you and I--like a lot of people--part ways, not because we have opposite values, but because of how we interpret various data. You remind me a lot of my best friend (also Black). He and I butt heads in a very similar way and sometimes it gets pretty damn intense.
But I think I know why.
I draw clear distinctions between culture and politics, even though they are very much intertwined. I tend to view people as elements on a spectrum, especially in politics.
I see politics as competing self-interested factions constantly vying for position against each other. i.e., struggles that can exist at the highest levels (e.g., "Communism vs Capitalism", "slavery vs abolition"), all the way down to mundane s*** like where to put the next traffic lights.
Politics is shaped by those who care the most about politics, be they politicians, activists, pundits, opinion-makers, donors, what-have-you. But the vast majority of people aren't political. Most folk, ultimately, accept whatever hand they've been dealt and try to make the best of it.
But we all make up the culture.
To be clear, a lot of regular folk get manipulated and influenced by politics, and yes, s*** can go way off the rails if we allow the crazies to attain and maintain power.
But I will opt for honest and serious dialogue, every time, as long as it is an option. But if that cup ever runs empty, I can be a massive a-hole as much as anybody else =)
The respondents do not view today as the best time to be alive. It is harder to get ahead today. Black history is under attack. Venture capital attempts to increase the number of Black businesses is under attack. There are statewide organized attempts to block Black voters. These are not the best of times. That directly goes against the idea that there was no better time in the past.
"These are not the best of times. That directly goes against the idea that there was no better time in the past."
#1, my original assertion was not this general. I said *race relations in America* had never been better, and I added that this did not necessarily equate to "good", but simply better. (I also offered a dictionary definition of race relations.)
I didn't say Black American life had never been better. I said Black-White race relations had never been better.
Again, if there was a better time for Black-White race relations in America, when was it? I can't imagine anything prior to the 21st Century, and we're only 23 years into that.
In this case, I was using "typical" as a bit of a pejorative (meaning, eye-roll inducing).
But yes, I am an outlier in many ways, and perfectly okay with that.
"If economics is not a measure, how are you assessing improvement?"
If I google "race relations", I get this:
"the way in which members or communities of different racial or ethnic groups feel about and behave toward each other within a particular area."
That is not necessarily about economics. Sounds more like a focus on basic respect in general, and based on that, there is no doubt that the current-day is better than previous generations. I honestly don't know how anyone could claim otherwise.
There are certainly other areas of importance, and other facts that don't at all comport with any idea of a racially harmonious society. But acknowledging that the current-day, overall, is better than back in the day, does not dismiss or ignore any of that. (Not with me anyway.)
Also, comparing Black American and White American wealth is complex. There is obviously the huge factor of who got the head start, but clearly that doesn't explain everything. There are other factors, such as, yes, culture.
One of the most interesting stats that I never hear about regarding African-Americans is how so many of our richest individuals hail from the entertainment industry: Oprah, Jordan, Jay-Z, Tyler Perry, Kanye (before he lost his damned mind), Bob Johnson (before his divorce).
We're talking billionaires, who mostly started off poor and working class, making their fortunes in the industry with the worst odds for success. That's mind-blowing if you think about it.
With every other ethnicity, the wealthiest got their bag from real estate, tech, finance, etc. But in Black America, tech billionaires like Robert Smith and David Stewart are the outliers. That suggests to me that we as a people have been too focused on a particular path, and that's cultural.
There are other meaningful factors as well. Like the African and West Indian immigrants. Their narrative is a lot closer to the overall American immigrant story and the results are similar--oftentimes better than their White counterparts.
Can't think of a creative way to end this post, so I'll just leave it there.
I did an edit to add in the previous post to note the results of a recent poll noting the negative feelings about the current situation
I am surprised that you haven’t come across multiple discussions on why athletes and entertainers top the wealth list. David Steward and Robert F Smith are known to be rarities.
"I am surprised that you haven’t come across multiple discussion on why athletes and entertainers top the wealth list. David Steward and Robert F Smith are known to be rarities."
We're talking about slightly different things. Of course Smith and Stewart are rare; billionaires are quite rare.
I am saying that the percentage of African-American billionaires that come from the entertainment industry is astonishing in and of itself, esp. when compared to other American ethnicities.
We all kinda know why. But no, I honestly haven't heard that particular fact stressed in any discussions.
As you note, entertainment was the only way to really advance in the past. There are many Blacks in government jobs because private industry did not have open arms until relatively recently. Conservatives are doing their best to keep Blacks out of industry. There is a lawsuit against a venture capital firm founded by Black women to fund Black women. Black women have a high percentage of entrepreneurs, but often lack access to funding. Conservatives see the venture capital firm as a threat and want to block the focus on Black women.
Black people are working to correct a problem, and here come Conservatives to obstruct progress.
The myth of “racial progress” is corrosive
From the Atlantic:
When we think about the nation’s racial history, we often envision a linear path, one that, admittedly, begins in a shameful period but moves unerringly in a single direction—toward equality. As if we’re riding a Whiggish escalator, the narrative of racial progress starts with slavery, ascends to the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation, speeds past segregation and Jim Crow to the victories of the civil-rights movement, and then drops us off in 2008 for Barack Obama’s election. Many people asserted at the time that America had become a “postracial” society, or was at least getting close—maybe one more short escalator ride away. This redemptive narrative not only smooths over the past but smooths over what is yet to come: It holds out the promise of an almost predestined, naturally occurring future that will be even more just and egalitarian.
For the past several years, I, along with my Yale colleague Michael W. Kraus and our students, have been examining perceptions of racial economic inequality—its extent and persistence, decade by decade. In a 2019 study, using a dozen specific moments between 1963 and 2016, we compared perceptions of racial wealth inequality over time with actual data on racial wealth inequality. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the respondents in our study significantly overestimated the wealth of Black families relative to that of white families. In 1963, the median Black family had about 5 percent as much wealth as the median white family. Respondents said close to 50 percent. For 2016, the respondents estimated Black wealth to be 90 percent that of whites. The correct answer for that year was about 10 percent.
The mythology of racial progress is corrosive in countless ways. It provides a reason to blame the victim: If we’re converging on equality, then those left behind must not be trying. And it diffuses moral responsibility for actively and significantly reforming the American system: If we’re converging on equality anyway, then why do we need laws and other measures to promote it?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/the-mythology-of-racial-progress/614173/
"begins in a shameful period but moves unerringly in a single direction"
Unerringly? No educated person believes that.
For better or worse, this author sounds very typical.
"It provides a reason to blame the victim", "it diffuses moral responsibility for actively and significantly reforming the American system"
Pretty reductive stuff if you ask me.
She appears to define racial progress as something mainly or solely based on economic *equality*. She's free to define racial progress however she wishes. But: (A) I think that's a mistake. (B) Her takes obscure too many other truths, and thus, various potential solutions.
In a capitalist system, economic situation is a very important measure.
If economics is not a measure, how are you assessing improvement?
Edit to add:
If the author is typical, are you the outlier?
2nd Edit to add:
The negatives from a recent poll
About half of Black Americans say racism will get worse over the rest of their lifetimes
69% of Black Americans say it is more dangerous to be a Black teen now than when they were teens; higher among older Black adults
Most Black adults are concerned about states blocking teaching of Black history and history of racism, banning books about race
About 8 in 10 Black Americans say America's economic system is stacked against them
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/16/black-americans-racism-poll/
RE: The WaPo Poll:
Interesting stuff. Frankly, it was way more positive than I anticipated. The central message I received was that the vast majority of African-Americans were (generally) content with their lives and potential, but increasingly anxious about the bizarre state of the White right.
The respondents also expressed genuine concern about *long-term* economic mobility. That is to say, getting ahead today is a more difficult proposition than a generation or so ago.
I get all of that, 100%. You don't have to be Black to get this.
Even during the Trump years, the FBI was consistent about who posed the biggest terrorist threat in America: White nationalists. (Needless to say, Jan6th didn't help alleviate such concerns. But that's another subject.)
As for economics: When longshot presidential candidate Andrew Yang touted Universal Basic Income, the concept resonated with all kinds of people because folks of every background recognize we are living in very different times.
I think that you and I--like a lot of people--part ways, not because we have opposite values, but because of how we interpret various data. You remind me a lot of my best friend (also Black). He and I butt heads in a very similar way and sometimes it gets pretty damn intense.
But I think I know why.
I draw clear distinctions between culture and politics, even though they are very much intertwined. I tend to view people as elements on a spectrum, especially in politics.
I see politics as competing self-interested factions constantly vying for position against each other. i.e., struggles that can exist at the highest levels (e.g., "Communism vs Capitalism", "slavery vs abolition"), all the way down to mundane s*** like where to put the next traffic lights.
Politics is shaped by those who care the most about politics, be they politicians, activists, pundits, opinion-makers, donors, what-have-you. But the vast majority of people aren't political. Most folk, ultimately, accept whatever hand they've been dealt and try to make the best of it.
But we all make up the culture.
To be clear, a lot of regular folk get manipulated and influenced by politics, and yes, s*** can go way off the rails if we allow the crazies to attain and maintain power.
But I will opt for honest and serious dialogue, every time, as long as it is an option. But if that cup ever runs empty, I can be a massive a-hole as much as anybody else =)
The respondents do not view today as the best time to be alive. It is harder to get ahead today. Black history is under attack. Venture capital attempts to increase the number of Black businesses is under attack. There are statewide organized attempts to block Black voters. These are not the best of times. That directly goes against the idea that there was no better time in the past.
"These are not the best of times. That directly goes against the idea that there was no better time in the past."
#1, my original assertion was not this general. I said *race relations in America* had never been better, and I added that this did not necessarily equate to "good", but simply better. (I also offered a dictionary definition of race relations.)
I didn't say Black American life had never been better. I said Black-White race relations had never been better.
Again, if there was a better time for Black-White race relations in America, when was it? I can't imagine anything prior to the 21st Century, and we're only 23 years into that.
Enjoy your very, very narrow argument.
Edit to add:
There has to be a pony in there somewhere.
In this case, I was using "typical" as a bit of a pejorative (meaning, eye-roll inducing).
But yes, I am an outlier in many ways, and perfectly okay with that.
"If economics is not a measure, how are you assessing improvement?"
If I google "race relations", I get this:
"the way in which members or communities of different racial or ethnic groups feel about and behave toward each other within a particular area."
That is not necessarily about economics. Sounds more like a focus on basic respect in general, and based on that, there is no doubt that the current-day is better than previous generations. I honestly don't know how anyone could claim otherwise.
There are certainly other areas of importance, and other facts that don't at all comport with any idea of a racially harmonious society. But acknowledging that the current-day, overall, is better than back in the day, does not dismiss or ignore any of that. (Not with me anyway.)
Also, comparing Black American and White American wealth is complex. There is obviously the huge factor of who got the head start, but clearly that doesn't explain everything. There are other factors, such as, yes, culture.
One of the most interesting stats that I never hear about regarding African-Americans is how so many of our richest individuals hail from the entertainment industry: Oprah, Jordan, Jay-Z, Tyler Perry, Kanye (before he lost his damned mind), Bob Johnson (before his divorce).
We're talking billionaires, who mostly started off poor and working class, making their fortunes in the industry with the worst odds for success. That's mind-blowing if you think about it.
With every other ethnicity, the wealthiest got their bag from real estate, tech, finance, etc. But in Black America, tech billionaires like Robert Smith and David Stewart are the outliers. That suggests to me that we as a people have been too focused on a particular path, and that's cultural.
There are other meaningful factors as well. Like the African and West Indian immigrants. Their narrative is a lot closer to the overall American immigrant story and the results are similar--oftentimes better than their White counterparts.
Can't think of a creative way to end this post, so I'll just leave it there.
I did an edit to add in the previous post to note the results of a recent poll noting the negative feelings about the current situation
I am surprised that you haven’t come across multiple discussions on why athletes and entertainers top the wealth list. David Steward and Robert F Smith are known to be rarities.
"I am surprised that you haven’t come across multiple discussion on why athletes and entertainers top the wealth list. David Steward and Robert F Smith are known to be rarities."
We're talking about slightly different things. Of course Smith and Stewart are rare; billionaires are quite rare.
I am saying that the percentage of African-American billionaires that come from the entertainment industry is astonishing in and of itself, esp. when compared to other American ethnicities.
We all kinda know why. But no, I honestly haven't heard that particular fact stressed in any discussions.
I need a minute to look into that poll.
As you note, entertainment was the only way to really advance in the past. There are many Blacks in government jobs because private industry did not have open arms until relatively recently. Conservatives are doing their best to keep Blacks out of industry. There is a lawsuit against a venture capital firm founded by Black women to fund Black women. Black women have a high percentage of entrepreneurs, but often lack access to funding. Conservatives see the venture capital firm as a threat and want to block the focus on Black women.
Black people are working to correct a problem, and here come Conservatives to obstruct progress.