Some very good point have been made. However, the idea that Asians are not White Adjacents is just simply a falsehood. Whether it's an intentional lie to attempt to strengthen his argument or just a break from reality, who knows. But Asian-Americans ae the very damn definition of white adjacency.
What is “white adjacent” supposed to mean? Not trying to be a pain, I’m just unfamiliar with this concept and I don’t want to read what it sounds like into a concept you seem to have a clear definition of.
I pity you. Your anger and bitterness has blinded you to the incredible opportunities that await ANYONE who is willing to,labor, persevere, and achieve on their own merits. There is nowhere else in the entire world you can achieve what you are presented with here. I am praying for your eyes to be opened.
Asian culture values education and hard work. They worked hard and succeeded, so you call them "white adjacent", because you want to have everything handed to you without making an effort, and you need an excuse to hide that.
Sorry for the all caps, but I only have the one question, still the same question, I keep asking. Does anyone else care?
How much did the "protests" of 2020/2021 cost? January 6th has been throughly canvassed, but for the riots, we have one report by Axios which studied a mere two week period and declared it the most expensive of all time. Between $1 and $2 billion.
Well, which was it? One or two billion? Kind of a lot of uncertainty between those two numbers. And we all know the number is much higher. If these were "conservatives" "protesting" we would already have that number.
Someone, anyone, Bari, please. The amount in insurance claims is a finite number I feel like any investigative journalist could uncover with minimum effort. Some of these places- where working-class Democrats live- will never recover- as some places never recovered from riots in the 1960's and 1990's. The people who live in those places deserve to know.
As do those who feel like they are going absolutely crazy in this upside-down world where a parent isn't allowed to "disrupt" a school board meeting after his daughter is raped in a bathroom by a biological male in a dress and the Louden County school covers it up but rioting, looting, and trying burning down a police station (with people inside) is the "language of the unheard".
Bari: Where do you think that fear of acknowledging the truth, or really just the inability to say it out loud, where is that coming from?
Dr. Loury: [...] I'm not sure I've got an answer. I mean, at some level, your guess is as good as mine. But I can try.
Upon a second listen, I realized this question is very similar to one I've been trying to get Matt Taibbi to address. Matt's primary point is that the profit motive is what leads media to produce outrage and anger and fear.
However, there's a problem with that. Why is the outrage and anger and fear always in one direction? (For anyone screaming, "But Fox, but Fox!!", keep reading.) The "mostly peaceful" protests Bari mentioned, the "insurrection" Dr. Loury mentioned, the rhetoric is always in one direction. Trump colluded with Russia. One direction.
This outrage is boring in its predictability. Why? That's the big question, and I think it goes beyond Taibbi's profit motive.
As for Fox News, two points. First, ever notice how Fox is invariably the retort to complaints about the woke MSM? That's because Fox is the sole "other side" source that has enough visibility to matter to the masses. But notice Fox News's outrage is almost exclusively the routine trashing of politicians. AOC is a commie, yada, yada, yada. Old hat. Pushing the idea that white people have evil children that need to be "educated" goes a step or two beyond dirty politics, I think we can all agree.
Two, and this is important. Fox News, by no means, goes as far in their inflammatory rhetoric as the CNN/WaPo pack of flame fanners. (For the record, I don't watch any cable news whatsoever. For me, it's exclusively Substack, specific online news searches, and podcasts.) A good example is the media reaction to the DOJ's report completely exonerating the Ferguson policeman. The CNN/WaPo, etc., lead story was not about the exoneration of the policeman, but rather about a trivial report (released concurrently -- I'm shocked, I'm shocked) showing blacks were given traffic tickets at a rate higher than whites. Media headlines were, basically, "DOJ Finds Ferguson is Racist." (Even the traffic ticket "inequity" is suspect because, as the Steeles pointed out in their documentary, a large Sam's store brings in many black drivers from outlying areas.)
Consider this: What would happen if Fox News covered Tessa Majors the way the rest of the media (including Fox News) covered Ferguson and George Floyd? Do you think a right wing CNN or WaPo could feed society's bloodlust with nonstop obsession over the murder of Tessa Majors? Of course they could! And ratings would be through the roof.
(By the way, the only reason I have even heard of Tessa Majors is because of two obscure nameless references John McWhorter made. Once on a podcast with Glenn, and once as a guest on another podcast. This case is on my mind today because the second of her murderers has pled guilty and is to be sentenced this week.)
It comes back to Bari's question. WHY is it that our society/MSM/political world is pushing a distorted reality to the extent they are?
I think this is a significant question with a serious important story behind it. I'm encouraged that Bari asked about it. I hope Dr. Loury or Matt Taibbi -- or anyone! -- will eventually shed some light on the matter.
Rage and hate, is easy...it's clicks/money. Understanding, answers, compassion, take time. People want immediacy a quick fix. Ruling is easier than leading...unfortunately we as a country need to reflect, heal to move forward, not be pulled backward to despair. It is up to all to make a commitment to uplift.
To reiterate what I wrote in the comments on Bari’s post of this interview, what a wonderful and insightful conversation from two of my favorite thinkers! Thank you so much and bravo! 👏
Wikipedia on Hyman RIckover. Not much has changed **in 60 years.**
---------------------------
Rickover developed a decades-long and outspoken interest in the educational standards of the US as being ***a national security issue,*** particularly as compared during the Cold War era to Soviet Russia.[73] <emphasis added; just need to change name of country and You got today>
An example of his passion for education from his 1959 Report on Russia[74] in the context of comparative educational systems:
"There is no room here (in nuclear powerplant development) for lofty theories which do not work out in practice. We would not get anywhere if we had the loose, hazy thinking you encounter when you bring out the obvious failures of the American educational system. ... there are times when it is irresponsible to avoid criticizing something which one knows to be wrong and dangerous for the Nation as a whole. I feel that every one who has a position of responsibility in this country and who can see and understand what is happening not only has the right, he has the obligation and the duty to speak. ... This is why I feel so strongly about education—about our failure to give our children as good an education as they deserve and need. ... It is my considered opinion that there is no problem that faces the Congress or the country that is as important."
Apologies. Should-a just copied. From my "arch-enemy":
---------------------------
Matt Mullen Sep 30
I'm not seeing any solutions here. Just a lot of blame and accusations.
My solution is to provide a national program where we offer centers that can test people's aptitudes and interests and then set them on a track toward improving their relevant skills and knowledge so that they can find gainful employment. I'd like these centers to be open to all Americans over 16, and I'd like for the testing and education to be fully funded by the federal government. And I'd like the business community to frequently report on which kinds of skills and knowledge are most needed, and are likely to be needed down the road.
---------------------------
I believe M. Mullen is thinking something like a trade school.
Me? Mebbe a three-year school that includes classes on citizenship, ethics and other basics. ALONG with college-prep education to match the best of the best. Like I commented over there, seems like there'd be possibilities. ?
I appreciate the rational, wise assessment. The return to the idea of all Americans pulling together, of a unity, E Pluribus Unum--let's move in that direction.
I've been putting off signing up for Bari's substack for the simple reason of time and money but I think I might have to just to hear this interview and to get the transcript in context.
Did you really say that you were sorry that half the country voted for Donald Trump and that people actually supported him? Personally I think the man's a pig but I also think as a president he did some really important things. If you are disparaging half of the country as ignorant troglodytes on one side of your mouth and then saying that everybody ought to get in the same boat and row as far as race relations... Well I'm not sure what to make of that. Since I couldn't listen to voice inflection which is a big part of context I think I'll go drop the 60 bucks and listen to it for myself. I love you brother but that was you backsliding into the Ivory Tower of the intelligentsia and the privileged... Keep making comments like that and pretty soon you'll get invited to all the cool cocktail parties... But hey I get it you were talking to Bari Weiss ...
Okay I just gave Bari her blood money and listened to the podcast. In listening to it I realize that it can be taken two ways.
One way of hearing the phrase "I'm sorry to say"... which was thrown out sort of parenthetical is that you're sorry half the country voted for Trump or supported him. After listening to it I'm more inclined to believe that what you were saying was that what you're "about" to say about our news media is something that "you're sorry to have to say". That being the case my above post was a bit reactionary and you need to have a conversation with whoever made this clip and posted it. I don't think it reflects your beliefs but it seems to indicate a bias that I don't think you have. If my original reaction is indeed how you feel then I would invite you to reflect on that...Sorry for the confusion brother. Keep up the good fight.
As much as I love the guy and admire his insight, at the end of the day he is a life long Ivy League academic married to a Bernie Bros and surrounded by committed progressives like John McWhorter. I take all of his caveats about partisanship and Trump voters is the price he pays for tranquility in his life, domestic and otherwise.
To some extent I think this tendency is an extension of his flirtation with the Jesse Jackson types back in the '90s. You could say it's walking a thin line and he struggles with figuring out which side he wants to be on. At age 73, maybe it's time for him to figure it out and get off the pot.
I had no confusion with the remark. Something like smilingly telling a friend a sports score. "I'm sorry to say, your team lost to mine 42-0."
For what it's worth, I don't think it's especially useful to put Glenn and John to a litmus test over broad ideology every time they express an opinion. In my case, my own views are too disparate for that. I created two lists a while back of my "conservative" and "liberal" views on various topics. I had quite a nice mix. No team would want me. And I don't want a team.
Some very good point have been made. However, the idea that Asians are not White Adjacents is just simply a falsehood. Whether it's an intentional lie to attempt to strengthen his argument or just a break from reality, who knows. But Asian-Americans ae the very damn definition of white adjacency.
What is “white adjacent” supposed to mean? Not trying to be a pain, I’m just unfamiliar with this concept and I don’t want to read what it sounds like into a concept you seem to have a clear definition of.
I pity you. Your anger and bitterness has blinded you to the incredible opportunities that await ANYONE who is willing to,labor, persevere, and achieve on their own merits. There is nowhere else in the entire world you can achieve what you are presented with here. I am praying for your eyes to be opened.
Asian culture values education and hard work. They worked hard and succeeded, so you call them "white adjacent", because you want to have everything handed to you without making an effort, and you need an excuse to hide that.
You just can't stand it that they worked hard, did well, and prospered, whereas you didn't bother and expect everything to be handed to you.
HOW MUCH DID THE 2020 "PROTESTS" COST?
Sorry for the all caps, but I only have the one question, still the same question, I keep asking. Does anyone else care?
How much did the "protests" of 2020/2021 cost? January 6th has been throughly canvassed, but for the riots, we have one report by Axios which studied a mere two week period and declared it the most expensive of all time. Between $1 and $2 billion.
Well, which was it? One or two billion? Kind of a lot of uncertainty between those two numbers. And we all know the number is much higher. If these were "conservatives" "protesting" we would already have that number.
Someone, anyone, Bari, please. The amount in insurance claims is a finite number I feel like any investigative journalist could uncover with minimum effort. Some of these places- where working-class Democrats live- will never recover- as some places never recovered from riots in the 1960's and 1990's. The people who live in those places deserve to know.
As do those who feel like they are going absolutely crazy in this upside-down world where a parent isn't allowed to "disrupt" a school board meeting after his daughter is raped in a bathroom by a biological male in a dress and the Louden County school covers it up but rioting, looting, and trying burning down a police station (with people inside) is the "language of the unheard".
Bari: Where do you think that fear of acknowledging the truth, or really just the inability to say it out loud, where is that coming from?
Dr. Loury: [...] I'm not sure I've got an answer. I mean, at some level, your guess is as good as mine. But I can try.
Upon a second listen, I realized this question is very similar to one I've been trying to get Matt Taibbi to address. Matt's primary point is that the profit motive is what leads media to produce outrage and anger and fear.
However, there's a problem with that. Why is the outrage and anger and fear always in one direction? (For anyone screaming, "But Fox, but Fox!!", keep reading.) The "mostly peaceful" protests Bari mentioned, the "insurrection" Dr. Loury mentioned, the rhetoric is always in one direction. Trump colluded with Russia. One direction.
This outrage is boring in its predictability. Why? That's the big question, and I think it goes beyond Taibbi's profit motive.
As for Fox News, two points. First, ever notice how Fox is invariably the retort to complaints about the woke MSM? That's because Fox is the sole "other side" source that has enough visibility to matter to the masses. But notice Fox News's outrage is almost exclusively the routine trashing of politicians. AOC is a commie, yada, yada, yada. Old hat. Pushing the idea that white people have evil children that need to be "educated" goes a step or two beyond dirty politics, I think we can all agree.
Two, and this is important. Fox News, by no means, goes as far in their inflammatory rhetoric as the CNN/WaPo pack of flame fanners. (For the record, I don't watch any cable news whatsoever. For me, it's exclusively Substack, specific online news searches, and podcasts.) A good example is the media reaction to the DOJ's report completely exonerating the Ferguson policeman. The CNN/WaPo, etc., lead story was not about the exoneration of the policeman, but rather about a trivial report (released concurrently -- I'm shocked, I'm shocked) showing blacks were given traffic tickets at a rate higher than whites. Media headlines were, basically, "DOJ Finds Ferguson is Racist." (Even the traffic ticket "inequity" is suspect because, as the Steeles pointed out in their documentary, a large Sam's store brings in many black drivers from outlying areas.)
Consider this: What would happen if Fox News covered Tessa Majors the way the rest of the media (including Fox News) covered Ferguson and George Floyd? Do you think a right wing CNN or WaPo could feed society's bloodlust with nonstop obsession over the murder of Tessa Majors? Of course they could! And ratings would be through the roof.
(By the way, the only reason I have even heard of Tessa Majors is because of two obscure nameless references John McWhorter made. Once on a podcast with Glenn, and once as a guest on another podcast. This case is on my mind today because the second of her murderers has pled guilty and is to be sentenced this week.)
It comes back to Bari's question. WHY is it that our society/MSM/political world is pushing a distorted reality to the extent they are?
I think this is a significant question with a serious important story behind it. I'm encouraged that Bari asked about it. I hope Dr. Loury or Matt Taibbi -- or anyone! -- will eventually shed some light on the matter.
Rage and hate, is easy...it's clicks/money. Understanding, answers, compassion, take time. People want immediacy a quick fix. Ruling is easier than leading...unfortunately we as a country need to reflect, heal to move forward, not be pulled backward to despair. It is up to all to make a commitment to uplift.
To reiterate what I wrote in the comments on Bari’s post of this interview, what a wonderful and insightful conversation from two of my favorite thinkers! Thank you so much and bravo! 👏
Wikipedia on Hyman RIckover. Not much has changed **in 60 years.**
---------------------------
Rickover developed a decades-long and outspoken interest in the educational standards of the US as being ***a national security issue,*** particularly as compared during the Cold War era to Soviet Russia.[73] <emphasis added; just need to change name of country and You got today>
An example of his passion for education from his 1959 Report on Russia[74] in the context of comparative educational systems:
"There is no room here (in nuclear powerplant development) for lofty theories which do not work out in practice. We would not get anywhere if we had the loose, hazy thinking you encounter when you bring out the obvious failures of the American educational system. ... there are times when it is irresponsible to avoid criticizing something which one knows to be wrong and dangerous for the Nation as a whole. I feel that every one who has a position of responsibility in this country and who can see and understand what is happening not only has the right, he has the obligation and the duty to speak. ... This is why I feel so strongly about education—about our failure to give our children as good an education as they deserve and need. ... It is my considered opinion that there is no problem that faces the Congress or the country that is as important."
an excellent interview full of wisdom and self-reflection/ real chemistry, or so it seemed, with Bari
I've been meaning to listen, but generally don't unless there's a transcript. Dunno if authors ever look at these comments, but was saying same to, perhaps, interesting idea on M. Weiss's article on this. https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/wrongthink-on-race-with-glenn-c-loury/comment/3090296
Apologies. Should-a just copied. From my "arch-enemy":
---------------------------
Matt Mullen Sep 30
I'm not seeing any solutions here. Just a lot of blame and accusations.
My solution is to provide a national program where we offer centers that can test people's aptitudes and interests and then set them on a track toward improving their relevant skills and knowledge so that they can find gainful employment. I'd like these centers to be open to all Americans over 16, and I'd like for the testing and education to be fully funded by the federal government. And I'd like the business community to frequently report on which kinds of skills and knowledge are most needed, and are likely to be needed down the road.
---------------------------
I believe M. Mullen is thinking something like a trade school.
Me? Mebbe a three-year school that includes classes on citizenship, ethics and other basics. ALONG with college-prep education to match the best of the best. Like I commented over there, seems like there'd be possibilities. ?
If it were me, I'd put the age at 14. As they're going INTO high school, right? Strictly MERIT based, of COURSE.
I appreciate the rational, wise assessment. The return to the idea of all Americans pulling together, of a unity, E Pluribus Unum--let's move in that direction.
I've been putting off signing up for Bari's substack for the simple reason of time and money but I think I might have to just to hear this interview and to get the transcript in context.
Did you really say that you were sorry that half the country voted for Donald Trump and that people actually supported him? Personally I think the man's a pig but I also think as a president he did some really important things. If you are disparaging half of the country as ignorant troglodytes on one side of your mouth and then saying that everybody ought to get in the same boat and row as far as race relations... Well I'm not sure what to make of that. Since I couldn't listen to voice inflection which is a big part of context I think I'll go drop the 60 bucks and listen to it for myself. I love you brother but that was you backsliding into the Ivory Tower of the intelligentsia and the privileged... Keep making comments like that and pretty soon you'll get invited to all the cool cocktail parties... But hey I get it you were talking to Bari Weiss ...
Okay I just gave Bari her blood money and listened to the podcast. In listening to it I realize that it can be taken two ways.
One way of hearing the phrase "I'm sorry to say"... which was thrown out sort of parenthetical is that you're sorry half the country voted for Trump or supported him. After listening to it I'm more inclined to believe that what you were saying was that what you're "about" to say about our news media is something that "you're sorry to have to say". That being the case my above post was a bit reactionary and you need to have a conversation with whoever made this clip and posted it. I don't think it reflects your beliefs but it seems to indicate a bias that I don't think you have. If my original reaction is indeed how you feel then I would invite you to reflect on that...Sorry for the confusion brother. Keep up the good fight.
I went through a nearly identical thought process and was thinking about how to pose my comments. You beat me to it.
Neither. I was saying, "I know many of you don't want to hear it, but as a matter of fact nearly half the country voted for him..."
As a matter of fact... you are correct.... but that misses my point as I am sure you know... evasion does not become you...
As much as I love the guy and admire his insight, at the end of the day he is a life long Ivy League academic married to a Bernie Bros and surrounded by committed progressives like John McWhorter. I take all of his caveats about partisanship and Trump voters is the price he pays for tranquility in his life, domestic and otherwise.
To some extent I think this tendency is an extension of his flirtation with the Jesse Jackson types back in the '90s. You could say it's walking a thin line and he struggles with figuring out which side he wants to be on. At age 73, maybe it's time for him to figure it out and get off the pot.
I had no confusion with the remark. Something like smilingly telling a friend a sports score. "I'm sorry to say, your team lost to mine 42-0."
For what it's worth, I don't think it's especially useful to put Glenn and John to a litmus test over broad ideology every time they express an opinion. In my case, my own views are too disparate for that. I created two lists a while back of my "conservative" and "liberal" views on various topics. I had quite a nice mix. No team would want me. And I don't want a team.
I think we are talking past each other on this.
I've already listened to this whole interview a few times. It was excellent!!!