My guest this week is the sociologist Benjamin Fleury-Steiner, author of many books, including one that deeply influenced my thinking on race, incarceration, and the justice system, Juror’s Stories of Death: How America’s Death Penalty Invests in Inequality
Gaza was not occupied on 10/7. It has been self governed by Hamas since 2005. There were no Jews living in Gaza or IDF occupying Gaza after 2005
The wall between Israel and Gaza was erected in order to stop Palestinian suicide bombers (including women and children) from crossing the border and blowing themselves up in public places.
I grew up constantly hearing about the terror attacks from the Palestinians on Israelis. Just do a quick search on Wikipedia. It’s all there.
The poor Jewish students, traumatized by having to hear criticism of their darling Jewish state, their, supremacist, genocidal, Jewish state.
The goal of Jews since the inception of Zionism in the late 1800s has been every inch of Palestine for the Jews. It doesn’t stop with Israel, but includes the West Bank and Gaza, then on to Eretz Israel (greater Israel). Mark Silbert knows all about Eretz Israel. I’m a little hazy on the borders, but it includes parts of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria. Zionists have never intended for there to be a Palestinian state, nor do they intend for there to be a democracy. Their goal has been to make life as miserable as possible for Palestinians, to drive them out or kill them, creating for Jews what the Aryan Nations (do they still exist?) can only dream of creating for white Christians in this country.
Then there is the subject of Jewish power, those forbidden words … you antisemite. Are we supposed to pretend for a nano second that Jews do not wield enormous power in this country, in the media, in finance, in Congress? Nothing hidden about it, all done in the open for everyone to see who bothers to look. Why can’t we talk about it?
Jews love to invoke “tropes” but a trope is nothing more than figure of speech, a metaphor and if the so-called anti-Semitic tropes are accurate, why can’t we use them, why do we allow ourselves to be silenced?
Why can’t we discuss Jewish power and how it’s been used to serve the tribe often at the expense of the nation, at the center at every level of our endless wars in the Middle East. Dual loyalty is being generous for many of them.
I didn’t just stumble across this recently. I have been immersed in the their world, observing it on a near daily basis since marrying into a very large, Jewish, Zionist, family over 40 years ago. I have come to know it well.
No such thing as "palestinians." They are Arab occupiers. As for "genocidal," the Israelis are apparently not very good at that considering how the population of the barbaric, insanely violent, hate-filled residents of Gaza has multiplied. The Israelis are not trying to wipe out all Arabs, they're responding to the war the Gazans began. In a war, people get killed, and far too many Israeli soldiers have died trying to wage war while sparing the enemy.
I was an intelligence officer not infantry, however, I have experience active service in the field. Depending on the circumstances, survival instincts are always acute. Young men trained to be warriors is an accomplishment worthy of great respect. I caution anyone not accepted into their binding collective ranks, to tread carefully. One's blood can run hot or cold, in either case, the brain is then on high-alert and the mind becomes focused. Under stress, discipline is essential. I have witnessed good and bad leadership, invariably it is after casualties in action. Loyalty among 'brothers' is powerful medicine. Ninty percent of the time, leadership intervenes and exerts control. Woe betide an enemy who still has the blood of our casualties on his hands. War is a nasty business and soldiers are not a angels.
Thank you Glenn for having the courage to continue conversations on this difficult topic. As suggested previously, there are potential guests out there who have a deep understanding of Israel, Palestine, Hamas and the mideast in general and could respond with depth and clarity to some of your provocative questions about campus activists, the moral confusion between Zionism and antis-semitism and the like). Dan Senor's podcast ("Call me back") is a great resource. Potential guests would include Haviv Rettig Gur, Nadav Eyal and Einat Wilf. Dan himself would also be a great guest. Fleury-Steiner's heart is in the right place, but he frankly doesn't have the expertise that this fraught topic deserves. BTW, "Late Admissions" is a masterpiece. I was riveted. Laughter and tears and wonderful portraits of the people in your life.
This suggestion has been made numerous times during the past 9 months by myself and other well meaning viewers/subscribers. It's hard to understand how someone with Glenn's intellect and penchant for introspection can't recognize the need for more balance in the viewpoints he exposes himself to on these matters.
Yes, I'm one of those you mentioned. I gave up after Glenn criticized his critics for being too judgmental or some such, something I have absolutely not been.
As to the "river to the sea" slogan, I hope Glenn recognizes that this slogan is in no way the worst we have seen regularly from the demonstrations. The mob demonstrating against Netanyahu found it more to its liking to scrawl "Hamas is Comin" on a monument. Or consider "Globalize the Intifada," the intifada being a rolling pogrom in which the most innocent Israels are targeted for death. In this context, it is perfectly clear what "river to the sea" means.
More balance! That’s a favorite term that Jews love to use when Israel is criticized. Jews dominate the senior ranks across our entire media spectrum, nothing hidden about it, all done the open for everyone to see who bothers to look and they have used that power to feed us a lifetime of constant demonization and dehumanization and Muslims in general and Arabs and Palestinians in particular while simultaneously feeding us a super humanization of Jews. I can bet that the 95+ percent of the time when all we hear is the Israeli perspective, the Zionist perspective, that if you scoured Marks social media, you will never hear a complaint about lack of balance.
Do we really have to go here again with these same old tropes? If Jews and Israelies control the media they are doing a piss poor job judging by the world wide outpouring of Jew hatred. I think the point of this comment is to have people with deep expertise on the conflict -- not good hearted lightweights. The problem isn't balance, its knowledge and expertise. And there could be experts with differing views on the topic.
Answer to “do we really have to go here again” in a separate post at 7:13 (PDT). Jews dominate the senior ranks across the entire media spectrum in this country, not the world. Yes, we do have to go here, long overdue.
Just curious. Can you provide links to a few pro Israel news stories in the war against Hamas from from CNN, AP, Reuters, BBC, NPR, Washington Post, not to mention the NYT? Most stories that I see feature portray Israel as the bad guy. Maybe these aren't the media sources that you follow. Maybe Al Jazeera?
I started to reply and it got deleted. I do not have time tonight, but I will tomorrow.. the pattern I am referring to did not start with Israel’s war on Gaza, but going back decades. The same patterns exists just different form these days. For historical starters, you may want to watch the 2006 documentary Reel Bad Arabs. More tomorrow…
Again. Gaza could surrender. They could release the hostages. The Gazan govt. could stop using their civilians to shield their soldiers. Until then, while I sympathize with innocent Palestinians, I'm NOT going to throw stones at the IDF.
I refuse to give any government the weapon of "stop killing my citizens" when they're deliberately putting their own citizens in harm's way. A government with that weapon cannot be defeated by any Western nation, and I don't wanna go there.
We could talk about legitimate governments according to which tries to protect its citizens. And which does a better job of respect rights of its citizens. Clearly, Israel wins both those competitions.
1. The fighting in Gaza continues largely because Hamas is holding over 100 hostages. The bombing will stop as soon as the hostages are released. There would be little reason to keep on fighting without the hostages.
2. What the grad students at U. Delaware think about "from the river to the sea" is much less important than how Hamas and their ilk think about it.
3. The Columbia administrators that were fired/suspended (given their behavior) will not be missed. The University should use the money saved to hire another History Professor. Columbia would be better off if they fired half of their administrators.
October 7th was horrific. So was the continual day-to-day Palestinian experience in the West Bank. Settler attacks with impunity. Land theft. A slow-walk ethnic cleansing. This has ramped up because Smotrich sees the IDF engagement as a green light to let the settlers do whatever they want, and has handed law enforcement to his cronies.
Abuse leads to abuse. Both sides abuse each other horribly.
Gaza was not occupied on 10/7. It has been self governed by Hamas since 2005. There were no Jews living in Gaza or IDF occupying Gaza after 2005
The wall between Israel and Gaza was erected in order to stop Palestinian suicide bombers (including women and children) from crossing the border and blowing themselves up in public places.
I grew up constantly hearing about the terror attacks from the Palestinians on Israelis. Just do a quick search on Wikipedia. It’s all there.
Everyone seems to forget this history.
The poor Jewish students, traumatized by having to hear criticism of their darling Jewish state, their, supremacist, genocidal, Jewish state.
The goal of Jews since the inception of Zionism in the late 1800s has been every inch of Palestine for the Jews. It doesn’t stop with Israel, but includes the West Bank and Gaza, then on to Eretz Israel (greater Israel). Mark Silbert knows all about Eretz Israel. I’m a little hazy on the borders, but it includes parts of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria. Zionists have never intended for there to be a Palestinian state, nor do they intend for there to be a democracy. Their goal has been to make life as miserable as possible for Palestinians, to drive them out or kill them, creating for Jews what the Aryan Nations (do they still exist?) can only dream of creating for white Christians in this country.
Then there is the subject of Jewish power, those forbidden words … you antisemite. Are we supposed to pretend for a nano second that Jews do not wield enormous power in this country, in the media, in finance, in Congress? Nothing hidden about it, all done in the open for everyone to see who bothers to look. Why can’t we talk about it?
Jews love to invoke “tropes” but a trope is nothing more than figure of speech, a metaphor and if the so-called anti-Semitic tropes are accurate, why can’t we use them, why do we allow ourselves to be silenced?
Why can’t we discuss Jewish power and how it’s been used to serve the tribe often at the expense of the nation, at the center at every level of our endless wars in the Middle East. Dual loyalty is being generous for many of them.
I didn’t just stumble across this recently. I have been immersed in the their world, observing it on a near daily basis since marrying into a very large, Jewish, Zionist, family over 40 years ago. I have come to know it well.
No such thing as "palestinians." They are Arab occupiers. As for "genocidal," the Israelis are apparently not very good at that considering how the population of the barbaric, insanely violent, hate-filled residents of Gaza has multiplied. The Israelis are not trying to wipe out all Arabs, they're responding to the war the Gazans began. In a war, people get killed, and far too many Israeli soldiers have died trying to wage war while sparing the enemy.
https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234?dplnkId=027a9d3a-d201-43f4-a00f-88b023762073&nodl=1
Just keep telling yourself that supremacist, delusional, Zionist filth.
I was an intelligence officer not infantry, however, I have experience active service in the field. Depending on the circumstances, survival instincts are always acute. Young men trained to be warriors is an accomplishment worthy of great respect. I caution anyone not accepted into their binding collective ranks, to tread carefully. One's blood can run hot or cold, in either case, the brain is then on high-alert and the mind becomes focused. Under stress, discipline is essential. I have witnessed good and bad leadership, invariably it is after casualties in action. Loyalty among 'brothers' is powerful medicine. Ninty percent of the time, leadership intervenes and exerts control. Woe betide an enemy who still has the blood of our casualties on his hands. War is a nasty business and soldiers are not a angels.
Thank you Glenn for having the courage to continue conversations on this difficult topic. As suggested previously, there are potential guests out there who have a deep understanding of Israel, Palestine, Hamas and the mideast in general and could respond with depth and clarity to some of your provocative questions about campus activists, the moral confusion between Zionism and antis-semitism and the like). Dan Senor's podcast ("Call me back") is a great resource. Potential guests would include Haviv Rettig Gur, Nadav Eyal and Einat Wilf. Dan himself would also be a great guest. Fleury-Steiner's heart is in the right place, but he frankly doesn't have the expertise that this fraught topic deserves. BTW, "Late Admissions" is a masterpiece. I was riveted. Laughter and tears and wonderful portraits of the people in your life.
This suggestion has been made numerous times during the past 9 months by myself and other well meaning viewers/subscribers. It's hard to understand how someone with Glenn's intellect and penchant for introspection can't recognize the need for more balance in the viewpoints he exposes himself to on these matters.
Yes, I'm one of those you mentioned. I gave up after Glenn criticized his critics for being too judgmental or some such, something I have absolutely not been.
As to the "river to the sea" slogan, I hope Glenn recognizes that this slogan is in no way the worst we have seen regularly from the demonstrations. The mob demonstrating against Netanyahu found it more to its liking to scrawl "Hamas is Comin" on a monument. Or consider "Globalize the Intifada," the intifada being a rolling pogrom in which the most innocent Israels are targeted for death. In this context, it is perfectly clear what "river to the sea" means.
More balance! That’s a favorite term that Jews love to use when Israel is criticized. Jews dominate the senior ranks across our entire media spectrum, nothing hidden about it, all done the open for everyone to see who bothers to look and they have used that power to feed us a lifetime of constant demonization and dehumanization and Muslims in general and Arabs and Palestinians in particular while simultaneously feeding us a super humanization of Jews. I can bet that the 95+ percent of the time when all we hear is the Israeli perspective, the Zionist perspective, that if you scoured Marks social media, you will never hear a complaint about lack of balance.
Do we really have to go here again with these same old tropes? If Jews and Israelies control the media they are doing a piss poor job judging by the world wide outpouring of Jew hatred. I think the point of this comment is to have people with deep expertise on the conflict -- not good hearted lightweights. The problem isn't balance, its knowledge and expertise. And there could be experts with differing views on the topic.
Answer to “do we really have to go here again” in a separate post at 7:13 (PDT). Jews dominate the senior ranks across the entire media spectrum in this country, not the world. Yes, we do have to go here, long overdue.
Just curious. Can you provide links to a few pro Israel news stories in the war against Hamas from from CNN, AP, Reuters, BBC, NPR, Washington Post, not to mention the NYT? Most stories that I see feature portray Israel as the bad guy. Maybe these aren't the media sources that you follow. Maybe Al Jazeera?
I started to reply and it got deleted. I do not have time tonight, but I will tomorrow.. the pattern I am referring to did not start with Israel’s war on Gaza, but going back decades. The same patterns exists just different form these days. For historical starters, you may want to watch the 2006 documentary Reel Bad Arabs. More tomorrow…
Glad to see that we still have some good old fashioned antisemites lurking around.
Do I need to point out to you that Jews have defined anti-semitism so broadly as to render it meaningless as a term of condemnation.
It doesn't need to be too broad a definition to slot you into it.
For some perspective you might want to read "The Arc of a Covenant" by Walter Russell Mead.
https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234?dplnkId=027a9d3a-d201-43f4-a00f-88b023762073&nodl=1
Agreed!
Again. Gaza could surrender. They could release the hostages. The Gazan govt. could stop using their civilians to shield their soldiers. Until then, while I sympathize with innocent Palestinians, I'm NOT going to throw stones at the IDF.
I refuse to give any government the weapon of "stop killing my citizens" when they're deliberately putting their own citizens in harm's way. A government with that weapon cannot be defeated by any Western nation, and I don't wanna go there.
We could talk about legitimate governments according to which tries to protect its citizens. And which does a better job of respect rights of its citizens. Clearly, Israel wins both those competitions.
A few points:
1. The fighting in Gaza continues largely because Hamas is holding over 100 hostages. The bombing will stop as soon as the hostages are released. There would be little reason to keep on fighting without the hostages.
2. What the grad students at U. Delaware think about "from the river to the sea" is much less important than how Hamas and their ilk think about it.
3. The Columbia administrators that were fired/suspended (given their behavior) will not be missed. The University should use the money saved to hire another History Professor. Columbia would be better off if they fired half of their administrators.
October 7th was horrific. So was the continual day-to-day Palestinian experience in the West Bank. Settler attacks with impunity. Land theft. A slow-walk ethnic cleansing. This has ramped up because Smotrich sees the IDF engagement as a green light to let the settlers do whatever they want, and has handed law enforcement to his cronies.
Abuse leads to abuse. Both sides abuse each other horribly.