Last month, John McWhorter and I participated in Heterodox Academy’s 2022 conference in Denver, Colorado. We spoke in front of an audience and discussed how to model constructive disagreement. But before that, we had a bit of a warm-up session with Zach Rausch, host of the
I agree with that last from Professor Loury. You see, there *is* such-a thing as right and wrong. People don't wanna hear that nowadays. That would be *judging,* heaven forefend.
But it's that very lack which got us in a lotta the situations we're in these days, right?
Re: the main area of disagreement between Glenn and John: moralism. There is a great scene from the original Swedish version of “ The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo” (available free on Prime Video) that perfectly crystallizes the differences between the liberal and conservative views about agency and morality. It occurs starting 2:04:00 into the movie. Lisbeth Salander (my favorite character in all of cinema!) has just saved the life of Michael Bloomquist, a liberal muck-raking journalist, from a serial killer, whom she pursues, runs off the road, and the villain burns to death. Afterward, Michael is talking to Lisbeth (dialogue copied from subtitles):
Michael: He didn’t die in an accident, did he? (She doesn’t answer.) Damn, Lisbeth. His father taught him to kill when he was 16 years old. That would make anyone sick in the brain.
Lisbeth (angrily): Don’t make him into a fucking victim! He nearly killed you. He was a killer and a rapist and he enjoyed it. He had the same chances as everyone else. You choose who you want to be. He wasn’t a victim! He was an evil motherfucker who hated women
Michael: How did he die?
Lisbeth: He burned to death.
Michael: Could you have saved him?
Lisbeth: Yes.
Michael: But you let him burn to death.
Lisbeth: Yes
Michael: I would never have done that, Lisbeth. But I understand why you did it.
So, you see, even after she’s saved his life, Michael, the good liberal, makes excuses for his torturer! (As John has said MANY times about Omar, “It’s all he’s ever known.”) And basically, Lisbeth, the goth, punk, hacker conservative, calls out his bullshit. Yet, although they disagree on this fundamental point about human agency, they still love each other.
A great conversation! Heterodox Academy is a much needed forum in these difficult times of woke intellectual discourse and policy-making. The future depends on it.
a comment going back to ORIGINAL convo (great memory lane trip). This can serve as a Q for the Q and A segment for the Professors. What does Prof Loury now think and feel as he talks about the "intellectual rigor" in the Academy, even allowing for sticking to ideologies 15 years later? Does Glenn still have very conservative students and colleagues at Brown, or have they been defenstrated? not admitted or essentially silenced? Can Glenn go back and restate what he disagreed with in Losing the Race and how have his views changed since and what was the impetus for the change? Was it personal, or was is his sincere commitment to academic honesty and integrity that he was seeing destroyed before his very eyes?
EPIC interview!!! Glenn and John are the true dynamic duo of brilliant articulation, balancing each other out yet accomplishing it without ever attacking one another....I literally love listening to their choice of words and vernacular- sounds funny but it’s like a calming drug watching their vids, hearing them dissect this crucial social zeitgeist like surgeons.....
I have now experienced A fine conversation that seeks to Unify. Thank you. For revealing the insanity of the left, based on its unwillingness to Listen. Yes, a developed skill. I will never again cut off a trucker in traffic nor any of you.
God Bless America. My advice, albeit unsolicited, is to consider very carefully the merits of openmindedness, seeking of actual truth. Perhaps some Dr J Peterson would assist in this truthseeking… say, about 5 hrs; a minimal but overworthwhile investment in Being. Seeing clearly thru the anger, to the real psychologic makeup that combines us as human beings. Anger fails. You are correct. Faith, less harsh judgment. But having and keeping your standards of truth and faith as the basis for the precious Constitution. A gift to yourselves and the world. We up north often envy your country’s founding. Blood for freedom. So many of my compatriots have seen the light on freedom and its cost. Well worth it for our legacy we leave to our kids.
Feelings are Far Too Weak a measurement nor is ad hominem( as you correctly state) worth pursuing. Demonizing is like pointing a finger… 1finger points; 3 point toward he who points. Identifying the perpetrator. Greatness is found in humility, that is what it takes to admit we don’t know it all. I don’t know it all. Just trying here. Bless you in your openmindedness and peaceful strength to see thru the woke insanity. And to help the lost folk who insist on diversity/inclusion argument which only insists on dropping standards of merit, to see the light of peace before them.🇨🇦🙏🏽
I agree with that last from Professor Loury. You see, there *is* such-a thing as right and wrong. People don't wanna hear that nowadays. That would be *judging,* heaven forefend.
But it's that very lack which got us in a lotta the situations we're in these days, right?
TYTY both...
Re: the main area of disagreement between Glenn and John: moralism. There is a great scene from the original Swedish version of “ The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo” (available free on Prime Video) that perfectly crystallizes the differences between the liberal and conservative views about agency and morality. It occurs starting 2:04:00 into the movie. Lisbeth Salander (my favorite character in all of cinema!) has just saved the life of Michael Bloomquist, a liberal muck-raking journalist, from a serial killer, whom she pursues, runs off the road, and the villain burns to death. Afterward, Michael is talking to Lisbeth (dialogue copied from subtitles):
Michael: He didn’t die in an accident, did he? (She doesn’t answer.) Damn, Lisbeth. His father taught him to kill when he was 16 years old. That would make anyone sick in the brain.
Lisbeth (angrily): Don’t make him into a fucking victim! He nearly killed you. He was a killer and a rapist and he enjoyed it. He had the same chances as everyone else. You choose who you want to be. He wasn’t a victim! He was an evil motherfucker who hated women
Michael: How did he die?
Lisbeth: He burned to death.
Michael: Could you have saved him?
Lisbeth: Yes.
Michael: But you let him burn to death.
Lisbeth: Yes
Michael: I would never have done that, Lisbeth. But I understand why you did it.
So, you see, even after she’s saved his life, Michael, the good liberal, makes excuses for his torturer! (As John has said MANY times about Omar, “It’s all he’s ever known.”) And basically, Lisbeth, the goth, punk, hacker conservative, calls out his bullshit. Yet, although they disagree on this fundamental point about human agency, they still love each other.
I loved it when Glenn advised us to restate our opposition's positions *in our own words*.
That is PREMIUM advice. We should all make this a habit.
It can help us see our blind spots. It can force us to sharpen our own arguments. More importantly, it ultimately tests the strength of our beliefs.
Because if I can't sufficiently answer my own questions, maybe my positions aren't as airtight as I thought.
Also, if our interlocutors are listening as we attempt to restate their arguments, they can confirm if we are truly understanding them.
This is WAY healthier than "fighting".
A great conversation! Heterodox Academy is a much needed forum in these difficult times of woke intellectual discourse and policy-making. The future depends on it.
a comment going back to ORIGINAL convo (great memory lane trip). This can serve as a Q for the Q and A segment for the Professors. What does Prof Loury now think and feel as he talks about the "intellectual rigor" in the Academy, even allowing for sticking to ideologies 15 years later? Does Glenn still have very conservative students and colleagues at Brown, or have they been defenstrated? not admitted or essentially silenced? Can Glenn go back and restate what he disagreed with in Losing the Race and how have his views changed since and what was the impetus for the change? Was it personal, or was is his sincere commitment to academic honesty and integrity that he was seeing destroyed before his very eyes?
EPIC interview!!! Glenn and John are the true dynamic duo of brilliant articulation, balancing each other out yet accomplishing it without ever attacking one another....I literally love listening to their choice of words and vernacular- sounds funny but it’s like a calming drug watching their vids, hearing them dissect this crucial social zeitgeist like surgeons.....
I have now experienced A fine conversation that seeks to Unify. Thank you. For revealing the insanity of the left, based on its unwillingness to Listen. Yes, a developed skill. I will never again cut off a trucker in traffic nor any of you.
God Bless America. My advice, albeit unsolicited, is to consider very carefully the merits of openmindedness, seeking of actual truth. Perhaps some Dr J Peterson would assist in this truthseeking… say, about 5 hrs; a minimal but overworthwhile investment in Being. Seeing clearly thru the anger, to the real psychologic makeup that combines us as human beings. Anger fails. You are correct. Faith, less harsh judgment. But having and keeping your standards of truth and faith as the basis for the precious Constitution. A gift to yourselves and the world. We up north often envy your country’s founding. Blood for freedom. So many of my compatriots have seen the light on freedom and its cost. Well worth it for our legacy we leave to our kids.
Feelings are Far Too Weak a measurement nor is ad hominem( as you correctly state) worth pursuing. Demonizing is like pointing a finger… 1finger points; 3 point toward he who points. Identifying the perpetrator. Greatness is found in humility, that is what it takes to admit we don’t know it all. I don’t know it all. Just trying here. Bless you in your openmindedness and peaceful strength to see thru the woke insanity. And to help the lost folk who insist on diversity/inclusion argument which only insists on dropping standards of merit, to see the light of peace before them.🇨🇦🙏🏽