Terrible interview, because it was too broad -- too many contentious issues.
Comment section is inadequate to debate/discuss all items that I would dispute with BJG or other socialists. I’ll stick to one issue for now. Financial Bigotry of “progressive” taxes, the bedrock bigotry of all liberals and socialists.
BJG wants a wealth tax to take from Musk (and others) so that she can subsidize tuition, among other things. That is step one. Next step, a poor, single woman with 7 kids claims she has a greater need for a 5-bedroom home than does a wealthy doctor and his two-child family. Yes, social and economic leveling expropriates the doctor’s home and it is given to the unemployed, single mother with 7 kids. What government agent forced this change and according to what rules was it done? What was the race of the government agent? His/her religion, race, geographic identity? Who determines justice of such an expropriation and how often will this transpire? Will poor illegal immigrants create even larger families as a vehicle to a larger home, expropriated from some other hapless soul? Who will learn about the ’incentive’ to have a large number of kids?
Regarding the wealth tax, where does this process end? What is fair? (had to ask since Bernie and other commies never define the word) Who expropriates the “overtime” time pay that a worker receives to pay for another person’s new suit or holiday vacation? Will all jobs pay equally? Will college deans, provosts, and other diversity educrates be paid the same as a kindergarten teacher, since educrats only make simple political decisions and are unaccountable to those whom they purported serve? Can anyone seriously argue that a DEI Provost needs an advanced degree to issue dictates and quotas? Why are these educrates paid so much? What is the case that they add even 1/10th the value compared to what they are paid? No doubt, the high cost of college is somewhat a function of the compensation rates paid to the educrat class.
Steps 3-10,000? Who will construct the matrix of fairness, expropriation, subsidies, for consumer goods and real estate? End game is clear, unjust, and insane. How will this be done “democratically” according to democratic socialists?
Hi Glenn- I read the below short piece years ago from Prof. Steven Landsburg (economist @ Rochester) and it really resonated with me. I have failed multiple times to explain/convince friends of the argument, but I know you have the economic chops to understand and/or refute it! If you agree with it, then Briana does a wonderful job of admitting that it is literally impossible to tax Elon Musk as it will not reduce his consumption at all.
She needs a 12 Step program. But she is probably too smart for such an experience. There is no other process which can transform the lives of people who make excuses for their bad luck. “See what you made me do” a popular game described by Eric Berne comes to mind when I hear people like Ms Gray. It is important to run out of excuses.
I personally enjoyed the podcast. I may not agree with Briahna on everything, but I can relate to some of her points.
I see she was born in 86, and I was born in 83. When I was finishing high school, the perception of technical school felt very different then. Basically it was college or “loser.” People who went to big colleges were publicly praised, but not the ones who went into the military or decided to become a welder. Pretty messed up when looking back at it.
That said, my wife has a JD and I have an MBA. Fortunately we were able to pay all our debts quickly, but it was quite a sacrifice. I worked all throughout college, and my wife works 80 hours a week. During undergrad, I was living at home and working as a contractor for a power plant. I didn’t really get the college experience, but never felt it was worth the cost.
I felt well aware of the risks of taking on such debt. I was always terrified of taking on such debt without a guarantee of a high paying job. I never quite understood someone taking on massive debt to pursue a degree that doesn’t have a clear career path other than academia. Almost felt like a pyramid scheme at that point lol.
I woke up early and settled down with my headphones for a Glenn discussion with a bright, articulate and passionate progressive, hoping to find some common ground. I rose from my bed an hour later seething.
This woman turned out to be just another envious tax-the-rich throw-money-at-the-poor elitist. She has no idea where money comes from. She looks down on Elon Musk because he started out with money from parents who supported apartheid? How about the multiplied value he has given the world because of what he did with it?
The real lesson here is that you do what you can to prosper and succeed in America no matter where you start. This is why millions of people from all over the world are pouring over our borders despite the toxic progressive message that America is the most racist and corrupt country in history. They know that you can still build a better life for yourself and your family in America than anywhere else.
She complains about our health care system and the higher costs compared to other countries with universal health care, and she paints a false picture of a non-existent country where everyone gets top-flight health care and they pay nothing. I lived through the Canadian system and yes, nobody goes bankrupt from medical bills. But there are doctor shortages everywhere because Canadian doctors move out of the country, equipment is scarce and often poorly maintained, and sick Canadians live out their lives on waiting lists while they get sicker or sometimes die - and the system counts on that. Universal health care usually means no medical bills, but actual access to care is strictly regulated and not a guarantee.
She should learn something from Sweden. It has a very generous welfare system and health care is available, and reasonably good. To pay for it, they tried taxing the rich like the progressives want, but the rich simply moved out of the country. So the medical system is paid for by taxing the poor and the middle class. Tax rates are about 60 percent. Everybody likes the system but they resent the high taxes. Productivity and prosperity are slowly declining because you cannot get something for nothing.
Your guest needs to look at other countries who have tried her policies and be honest about the trade-offs that come with the hostility she radiates toward people who do well. She also needs to shake off the myths she has bought into regarding redistribution of other peoples' money. The key to better lives for the poor and the working people is t0 open doors for them to earn their own prosperity, not be predators of those who have taken advantage of what America offers us all.
I love Glenn (and McWhorter, and Coleman, etc.) But clearly a lot of my fellow Glenn Show subscribers are way too ideologue for me.
I will keep my tone to a respectful gentlemanly level here. That said, not every conversation between people of different views has to be a fight. Or a debate. Or a "I gotta get one up on you" type of discussion. Obviously Glenn feels zero pressure to do that.
Sometimes, people are more interested in listening. Sometimes, people are looking to better understand what makes the other person tick. Sometimes people want to listen and re-think stuff.
How do we think Dr. G got to where he is now? Or where he was 15 years ago?
Sometimes--especially with Glenn--people want to be respectful to their guests, particularly with those who respect him.
Does anybody honestly think Dr. Loury doesn't know, backwards & forwards / up & down, all of the potential "comebacks" to Gray's arguments?
This wasn't about that.
Glenn once explained that this aspect of his show is not a bug. It's a feature. And for that I am grateful.
Very good discussion you had here. While I have disagreements with both sides of the discussion, for instance being Canadian, I know that drug costs aren't actually covered by government health care, I still enjoy hearing the discussion.
There is very little that is progressive about progressive philosophy any more. In this vein, they look very much like activists for whom the primary motivation is to perpetuate whatever problem they're claiming to fight. If the problem was fixed, they'd have to find real jobs. So it is with progressives, who continue to invent issues or overblow those that exist. The tell that progressive ideas are so "popular" is that they tend to require force in order to be enacted.
If she got j to Harvard she could have gone anywhere else cheaper - she wanted to be the big Harvard grad yet doesn’t want to pay - I’m so tired of these whiny , good for nothing progressives- they do nothing to help anyone - said nothing about schools shut- low income communities being destroyed by the policies they demand. They are the ones destroying this country and the people they supposedly care about !
I know you want to be respectful, but I think you were way too easy on Briahna.
I'll give Sanders credit where it is due, he often comes across as sincere. I don't want to effect you sholom bayis (marital harmony) with your wife ... but why not make mention of the fact that before Sander's became a millionaire via his book he railed against "the millionaires and billionaires (insert lower east side accent)." Now that he is a millionaire he only rails against the billionaires. Funny (and illuminating) how that works.
I'm probably the biggest dummy here but what I summarized from what she said is the poorer you are the less personal responsibility you owe yourself for every part of your life. The richer you are the more some system of power benefits you stealing from everyone else. Whatever it is its somebody else's fault and the only way to fix it is to get in power and take more money and implement socialism... I mean social programs. Isnt there some European country everyone says we should be like that is actively trying to roll back on all the social welfare cuz its unsustainable?
$500,000 starting salary for a doctor? My husband's medical salary as an infectious disease specialist, in the late 1980's, averaged a whopping $25.00 an hour. You are not paid to think in medicine, you are paid to do procedures. Surgeons, maybe, make that fee early on. And, we paid more for our daughter's pre-school than he spent on four years at Stanford's medical school. Times have changed.
Thanks for your last message. As I won’t be able to respond right away, I just wanted to send an interim note to let you know I will do so when I can. I appreciate your thought-provoking interventions and this opportunity for dialogue.
FYI, you can find me on LinkedIn or at r_hotchner@yahoo.com, if you’d like to have direct, one-on-one contact.
I'm with Sirin below except to say that the more I hear the pro-Medicare for All proponents speak, the more I believe we'd end up with Medicaid for All.
I'd like to remind BJG that the push for college degrees came when we decided to have a service economy vs manufacturing economy. When employers had to use measurables for raises that had to be objective not subjective (too unfair for variety of reasons), education and continuing education became one of the most common metrics. Of those who would have their loans forgiven, what percentage is for "social" or "identity" degrees? Poli-Sci?
Why do they treat healthcare as a "right" needing regulation like a utility, but not the law? Oh yeah, LAWYERS!
Terrible interview, because it was too broad -- too many contentious issues.
Comment section is inadequate to debate/discuss all items that I would dispute with BJG or other socialists. I’ll stick to one issue for now. Financial Bigotry of “progressive” taxes, the bedrock bigotry of all liberals and socialists.
BJG wants a wealth tax to take from Musk (and others) so that she can subsidize tuition, among other things. That is step one. Next step, a poor, single woman with 7 kids claims she has a greater need for a 5-bedroom home than does a wealthy doctor and his two-child family. Yes, social and economic leveling expropriates the doctor’s home and it is given to the unemployed, single mother with 7 kids. What government agent forced this change and according to what rules was it done? What was the race of the government agent? His/her religion, race, geographic identity? Who determines justice of such an expropriation and how often will this transpire? Will poor illegal immigrants create even larger families as a vehicle to a larger home, expropriated from some other hapless soul? Who will learn about the ’incentive’ to have a large number of kids?
Regarding the wealth tax, where does this process end? What is fair? (had to ask since Bernie and other commies never define the word) Who expropriates the “overtime” time pay that a worker receives to pay for another person’s new suit or holiday vacation? Will all jobs pay equally? Will college deans, provosts, and other diversity educrates be paid the same as a kindergarten teacher, since educrats only make simple political decisions and are unaccountable to those whom they purported serve? Can anyone seriously argue that a DEI Provost needs an advanced degree to issue dictates and quotas? Why are these educrates paid so much? What is the case that they add even 1/10th the value compared to what they are paid? No doubt, the high cost of college is somewhat a function of the compensation rates paid to the educrat class.
Steps 3-10,000? Who will construct the matrix of fairness, expropriation, subsidies, for consumer goods and real estate? End game is clear, unjust, and insane. How will this be done “democratically” according to democratic socialists?
She is painful
Hi Glenn- I read the below short piece years ago from Prof. Steven Landsburg (economist @ Rochester) and it really resonated with me. I have failed multiple times to explain/convince friends of the argument, but I know you have the economic chops to understand and/or refute it! If you agree with it, then Briana does a wonderful job of admitting that it is literally impossible to tax Elon Musk as it will not reduce his consumption at all.
http://www.thebigquestions.com/2011/04/18/the-man-who-cant-be-taxed/
She needs a 12 Step program. But she is probably too smart for such an experience. There is no other process which can transform the lives of people who make excuses for their bad luck. “See what you made me do” a popular game described by Eric Berne comes to mind when I hear people like Ms Gray. It is important to run out of excuses.
I personally enjoyed the podcast. I may not agree with Briahna on everything, but I can relate to some of her points.
I see she was born in 86, and I was born in 83. When I was finishing high school, the perception of technical school felt very different then. Basically it was college or “loser.” People who went to big colleges were publicly praised, but not the ones who went into the military or decided to become a welder. Pretty messed up when looking back at it.
That said, my wife has a JD and I have an MBA. Fortunately we were able to pay all our debts quickly, but it was quite a sacrifice. I worked all throughout college, and my wife works 80 hours a week. During undergrad, I was living at home and working as a contractor for a power plant. I didn’t really get the college experience, but never felt it was worth the cost.
I felt well aware of the risks of taking on such debt. I was always terrified of taking on such debt without a guarantee of a high paying job. I never quite understood someone taking on massive debt to pursue a degree that doesn’t have a clear career path other than academia. Almost felt like a pyramid scheme at that point lol.
I woke up early and settled down with my headphones for a Glenn discussion with a bright, articulate and passionate progressive, hoping to find some common ground. I rose from my bed an hour later seething.
This woman turned out to be just another envious tax-the-rich throw-money-at-the-poor elitist. She has no idea where money comes from. She looks down on Elon Musk because he started out with money from parents who supported apartheid? How about the multiplied value he has given the world because of what he did with it?
The real lesson here is that you do what you can to prosper and succeed in America no matter where you start. This is why millions of people from all over the world are pouring over our borders despite the toxic progressive message that America is the most racist and corrupt country in history. They know that you can still build a better life for yourself and your family in America than anywhere else.
She complains about our health care system and the higher costs compared to other countries with universal health care, and she paints a false picture of a non-existent country where everyone gets top-flight health care and they pay nothing. I lived through the Canadian system and yes, nobody goes bankrupt from medical bills. But there are doctor shortages everywhere because Canadian doctors move out of the country, equipment is scarce and often poorly maintained, and sick Canadians live out their lives on waiting lists while they get sicker or sometimes die - and the system counts on that. Universal health care usually means no medical bills, but actual access to care is strictly regulated and not a guarantee.
She should learn something from Sweden. It has a very generous welfare system and health care is available, and reasonably good. To pay for it, they tried taxing the rich like the progressives want, but the rich simply moved out of the country. So the medical system is paid for by taxing the poor and the middle class. Tax rates are about 60 percent. Everybody likes the system but they resent the high taxes. Productivity and prosperity are slowly declining because you cannot get something for nothing.
Your guest needs to look at other countries who have tried her policies and be honest about the trade-offs that come with the hostility she radiates toward people who do well. She also needs to shake off the myths she has bought into regarding redistribution of other peoples' money. The key to better lives for the poor and the working people is t0 open doors for them to earn their own prosperity, not be predators of those who have taken advantage of what America offers us all.
I love Glenn (and McWhorter, and Coleman, etc.) But clearly a lot of my fellow Glenn Show subscribers are way too ideologue for me.
I will keep my tone to a respectful gentlemanly level here. That said, not every conversation between people of different views has to be a fight. Or a debate. Or a "I gotta get one up on you" type of discussion. Obviously Glenn feels zero pressure to do that.
Sometimes, people are more interested in listening. Sometimes, people are looking to better understand what makes the other person tick. Sometimes people want to listen and re-think stuff.
How do we think Dr. G got to where he is now? Or where he was 15 years ago?
Sometimes--especially with Glenn--people want to be respectful to their guests, particularly with those who respect him.
Does anybody honestly think Dr. Loury doesn't know, backwards & forwards / up & down, all of the potential "comebacks" to Gray's arguments?
This wasn't about that.
Glenn once explained that this aspect of his show is not a bug. It's a feature. And for that I am grateful.
I think even the WaPo would give her four Pinocchios🤥🤥🤥🤥
Very good discussion you had here. While I have disagreements with both sides of the discussion, for instance being Canadian, I know that drug costs aren't actually covered by government health care, I still enjoy hearing the discussion.
There is very little that is progressive about progressive philosophy any more. In this vein, they look very much like activists for whom the primary motivation is to perpetuate whatever problem they're claiming to fight. If the problem was fixed, they'd have to find real jobs. So it is with progressives, who continue to invent issues or overblow those that exist. The tell that progressive ideas are so "popular" is that they tend to require force in order to be enacted.
If she got j to Harvard she could have gone anywhere else cheaper - she wanted to be the big Harvard grad yet doesn’t want to pay - I’m so tired of these whiny , good for nothing progressives- they do nothing to help anyone - said nothing about schools shut- low income communities being destroyed by the policies they demand. They are the ones destroying this country and the people they supposedly care about !
Dr. Loury,
I know you want to be respectful, but I think you were way too easy on Briahna.
I'll give Sanders credit where it is due, he often comes across as sincere. I don't want to effect you sholom bayis (marital harmony) with your wife ... but why not make mention of the fact that before Sander's became a millionaire via his book he railed against "the millionaires and billionaires (insert lower east side accent)." Now that he is a millionaire he only rails against the billionaires. Funny (and illuminating) how that works.
I'm probably the biggest dummy here but what I summarized from what she said is the poorer you are the less personal responsibility you owe yourself for every part of your life. The richer you are the more some system of power benefits you stealing from everyone else. Whatever it is its somebody else's fault and the only way to fix it is to get in power and take more money and implement socialism... I mean social programs. Isnt there some European country everyone says we should be like that is actively trying to roll back on all the social welfare cuz its unsustainable?
$500,000 starting salary for a doctor? My husband's medical salary as an infectious disease specialist, in the late 1980's, averaged a whopping $25.00 an hour. You are not paid to think in medicine, you are paid to do procedures. Surgeons, maybe, make that fee early on. And, we paid more for our daughter's pre-school than he spent on four years at Stanford's medical school. Times have changed.
Steve,
Thanks for your last message. As I won’t be able to respond right away, I just wanted to send an interim note to let you know I will do so when I can. I appreciate your thought-provoking interventions and this opportunity for dialogue.
FYI, you can find me on LinkedIn or at r_hotchner@yahoo.com, if you’d like to have direct, one-on-one contact.
Cheers,
Rick
I'm with Sirin below except to say that the more I hear the pro-Medicare for All proponents speak, the more I believe we'd end up with Medicaid for All.
I'd like to remind BJG that the push for college degrees came when we decided to have a service economy vs manufacturing economy. When employers had to use measurables for raises that had to be objective not subjective (too unfair for variety of reasons), education and continuing education became one of the most common metrics. Of those who would have their loans forgiven, what percentage is for "social" or "identity" degrees? Poli-Sci?
Why do they treat healthcare as a "right" needing regulation like a utility, but not the law? Oh yeah, LAWYERS!