Charles Love & Donique Rolle – Teaching Black History without CRT
Charles Love & Donique Rolle – Teaching Black History without CRT
Appears in this episode
My guests this week, Charles Love and Donique Rolle, turn down the temperature on the sometimes overheated debate about race and education. Charles is a passionate advocate for the power of education to help young black people achieve a successful and productive life—as he says, it’s no coincidence that most African Americans with college degrees are doing pretty well. Donique teaches African American history at a Florida public high school, and she’s found not only that she can do so quite effectively without recourse to critical race theory, but that she rarely gets pushback from parents and students about her approach.
Both Charles and Donique seem to agree: Racism (“systemic” or otherwise) is not a major obstacle to black students’ success; teaching them that it is only encourages them to disregard their own abilities and agency. I ask them about larger political issues at play in debates about teaching black history. Is Florida’s Stop WOKE Act as repressive as its opponents make it sound? What is the relationship, if any, between LGBT history and black history? Are traditional public schools the best way to educate our young people? Donique’s answer may surprise you.
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0:00 Charles’s argument for emphasizing education over systemic racism
5:21 Donique: Teaching African American history doesn’t require critical race theory
15:36 Charles: We are the 97%!
18:48 How Donique balances oppression and triumph in black history
24:02 What does Florida’s Stop WOKE Act actually say?
33:30 What’s wrong with integrating LGBT history and black history?
44:19 Sexuality’s ever-shifting Overton window
49:40 Why Donique, a public school teacher, advocates for homeschooling
54:30 Expanding the canon of historic black figures
Recorded April 10, 2023
Links and Readings
Charles’s podcast, Cut the Bull
Seeking Educational Excellence
The Woodson Center’s 1776 Unites project
Ian Rowe’s book, Agency: The Four Point Plan (F.R.E.E.) for ALL Children to Overcome the Victimhood Narrative and Discover Their Pathway to Power
Charles Love & Donique Rolle – Teaching Black History without CRT
Thanks for a wonderfully engaging debate. Also nice to hear from a fellow homegirl - although I had probably already left Orlando by the time Donique was born :) Having begun my early education (we moved to Ohio when I was twelve) in the lousy Orlando school system, (and it got worse later) it's good to hear Donique approach education with such a truly progressive approach.
I liked Charles's suggestion at the end that black history/culture be taught on the weekends, by those within those communities - makes perfect sense to me as the religious education I got came from two years' worth of Saturdays at our church. History is *so* broad it's hard to cover any appreciable time period in a semester or two. Honestly, I think that's where a lot of this socialization stuff should be - gender whatever, racism teachings, etc. I haven't been in school for a very long time but I wonder if any kid ever learns how to read and write their language properly, whether they're getting any education in history, math, science, geography, social studies, etc. You know, what they taught in schools back when parents raised their own kids. Maybe I'm wrong, but the impression I get is that teachers are the new de facto babysitters and parents.
How about getting Chris Rufo on the podcast to discuss DEI and CRT?