I think the argument that we should follow Jesus into the temple is out of context. In my opinion, Jesus expelled the money changers primarily because they were not worshiping God as they had been instructed and maybe to a much lesser extent because they were taking advantage of the poor. Not the other way around. I support my argument with Matthew 26: 6-13 when Jesus was anointed. His disciples asked why the woman would waste the oil on Jesus's head complaining that the money for the oil could have been spent on the poor. Jesus responded to this by saying there was a purpose to this and that we will always have the poor, but we will not always have Jesus in the flesh on earth.
My question to this conversation with Mr. West is in light of Matthew 26. You say we aren't doing all that we should to help the poor, but what is the standard for this argument? How can we judge how well we treat the poor in the United States? I would argue that a great many people around the world would fight and die to be considered poor in the United States of America. Regardless of Capitalism, Socialism, or some engineers mix of the two, the bottom 25% will always be the bottom quartile. True equality can never be attained. Disparities are the essential rule of nature. I don't like it, and I am sure you do not like it either. The only question remains is as a society, how much inequity or disparities will we allow before we intervene.
Furthermore, i'm concerned about conflating Socialism as a form of government that would follow any form of Judeo-Christian, or even Anglo-Christian values and morals. The 20th century put on full display that as righteous as these governments start, they quickly dissolve into tyranny and oppression. We founded our country with separation of Church and State. This is a much better solution that having a State that dissolves the Church for fear of it's influence and the idea of social unrest. At least we have a baseline of Christian morality and ethics in our legal system, despite Capitalism. Every example of a pure socialist society that we have seen in history has taken the opportunity to eliminate Christianity, and any other religion, in preference for a worship of the State.
Glenn, I've been following you on YouTube for years. I found this discussion to be beautiful. I was especially moved by your insistence that Cornell know that you are a "lapsed" Christian. I so badly wanted to interrupt with my own questions and hope some of them are answered in your memoir.
I also was wondering if you have heard of Voddie Baucham, who is writing and speaking about how CRT is dividing the Church. I would so love if you would have him on.
I listened to part of discussion with Cornel West and stopped only because my listening was interrupted by my schedule. I did enjoy the part I heard about religion, morality and navigating life. It was refreshing for me because otherwise I am exposed to very little of West’s spoken word. Thank you.
Great and interesting discussion! Glenn, the time has never been more ripe for a robust campaign to get more people to see what you've said so many times - "this is the only country we've got." I've linked a piece I just read that makes me think institutions of higher learning have pushed people in exactly the opposite direction. What's the solution to thinking like this?
Thank you for this! It was as brilliant as I had hoped. And it introduced me to Kiros, with whom I was unfamiliar. I look forward to reading his work. Oh, and to your upcoming memoir! I'd still love to see you talk with Adolph Reed. Bless you, Glenn. Take care.
All I can say is: Wow! No matter who it is, I enjoy not only listening to the conversation of the highly educated, but also those that are thoughtful, bright, honest and introspective. I'm not very educated at all, but somehow I believe I understand all they are saying on the many levels the conversation addresses... and you don't have to be black to get it. Perhaps they are simply speaking from the heart and that's what comes across so incredibly loud and refreshing. Would love to hear Glenn, Cornel and Jordan Peterson.
This is why I don’t like original sin in any of the frameworks that I know of. Cornel is equating greed, hypocrisy, and dishonesty with disease. The former are people’s ethical responsibility, and the latter are not. I would never blame a cancer patient for having cancer, and I sense a tendency, no matter how loosely defined, to drift in that direction on discussions of original sin. Why use religion as a magnifying lens to the negative cognitive bias of all that is wrong and corrupt with us? Might a certain brand of spirituality bring out our best tendencies, our tendency to heal the sick as an example. If we are talking spiritual, and healing then it should go without saying this walks hand in hand with biology, and medical science. Why is this not our cross and communion?
Wow! This was the best discussion yet! Being a Christian, I am fully in support of Prof. Cornel West's argument that people must follow Jesus into the Temple to expel the money changers, and to do so is an act of love! All three showed that there is so much to life that there are no simple answers to the complex problems facing humanity. Fortunately God through His providence illuminates the darkness we are all engulfed in by various means, like good Russian literature and Black music!
These sort of conversations were why I subscribed to the Glenn Show. Genuine, solution-oriented discussions that are free of narratives and sincerely seek the betterment of society. It left me conflicted with numerous questions which is what a good conversation is supposed to do! Did socialism have it right partially? Did it ultimately serve society the best way it could by "smoothing out" the rough edges of the outcomes produced by capitalism. I can see that with women, children, and the old (Medicare, Medicaid, etc...). But my list ends there. The limitations of being the gender that bears children validates the accommodations for women throughout our society. Similar moral backings explain the systems for children and the old. But my ultimate question is were black people as a whole forever destined to be second-class citizens due the hue of the outermost layer of our integumentary system? Were we doomed without the socialist notions of the 60s? Can socialism even get credit for that? MLK was ultimately fighting for the birthright dignity of the individual, found in the constitution, which American society failed to live up to at the time.
Also...Bigger Thomas is the poor black uneducated American equivalent of Raskolnikov. They asked, “has Dostoevsky committed a murder?” when that one came out. Saying Richard Wright’s treatment of Bigger Thomas “isn’t positive” sounds a lot like asking the murder question....God I love these books....I’ve been waiting for this one!
I think the argument that we should follow Jesus into the temple is out of context. In my opinion, Jesus expelled the money changers primarily because they were not worshiping God as they had been instructed and maybe to a much lesser extent because they were taking advantage of the poor. Not the other way around. I support my argument with Matthew 26: 6-13 when Jesus was anointed. His disciples asked why the woman would waste the oil on Jesus's head complaining that the money for the oil could have been spent on the poor. Jesus responded to this by saying there was a purpose to this and that we will always have the poor, but we will not always have Jesus in the flesh on earth.
My question to this conversation with Mr. West is in light of Matthew 26. You say we aren't doing all that we should to help the poor, but what is the standard for this argument? How can we judge how well we treat the poor in the United States? I would argue that a great many people around the world would fight and die to be considered poor in the United States of America. Regardless of Capitalism, Socialism, or some engineers mix of the two, the bottom 25% will always be the bottom quartile. True equality can never be attained. Disparities are the essential rule of nature. I don't like it, and I am sure you do not like it either. The only question remains is as a society, how much inequity or disparities will we allow before we intervene.
Furthermore, i'm concerned about conflating Socialism as a form of government that would follow any form of Judeo-Christian, or even Anglo-Christian values and morals. The 20th century put on full display that as righteous as these governments start, they quickly dissolve into tyranny and oppression. We founded our country with separation of Church and State. This is a much better solution that having a State that dissolves the Church for fear of it's influence and the idea of social unrest. At least we have a baseline of Christian morality and ethics in our legal system, despite Capitalism. Every example of a pure socialist society that we have seen in history has taken the opportunity to eliminate Christianity, and any other religion, in preference for a worship of the State.
Glenn, I've been following you on YouTube for years. I found this discussion to be beautiful. I was especially moved by your insistence that Cornell know that you are a "lapsed" Christian. I so badly wanted to interrupt with my own questions and hope some of them are answered in your memoir.
I also was wondering if you have heard of Voddie Baucham, who is writing and speaking about how CRT is dividing the Church. I would so love if you would have him on.
Thank you for everything.
I listened to part of discussion with Cornel West and stopped only because my listening was interrupted by my schedule. I did enjoy the part I heard about religion, morality and navigating life. It was refreshing for me because otherwise I am exposed to very little of West’s spoken word. Thank you.
Linking to Podcast Addict worked perfectly, looking forward to the show👍
Great and interesting discussion! Glenn, the time has never been more ripe for a robust campaign to get more people to see what you've said so many times - "this is the only country we've got." I've linked a piece I just read that makes me think institutions of higher learning have pushed people in exactly the opposite direction. What's the solution to thinking like this?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/patriotism-isnt-an-option-for-everyone/618767/
Thank you for this! It was as brilliant as I had hoped. And it introduced me to Kiros, with whom I was unfamiliar. I look forward to reading his work. Oh, and to your upcoming memoir! I'd still love to see you talk with Adolph Reed. Bless you, Glenn. Take care.
All I can say is: Wow! No matter who it is, I enjoy not only listening to the conversation of the highly educated, but also those that are thoughtful, bright, honest and introspective. I'm not very educated at all, but somehow I believe I understand all they are saying on the many levels the conversation addresses... and you don't have to be black to get it. Perhaps they are simply speaking from the heart and that's what comes across so incredibly loud and refreshing. Would love to hear Glenn, Cornel and Jordan Peterson.
Thanks a meaningful discussion Wrestling with the spiritual needs that all have in a world where love seems forgotten
One of the best discussions.
Loved the vitality and the humanity of this discussion. Though not an anti-capitalist nor a Christian i just loved West's preacher style/ thx again
This is why I don’t like original sin in any of the frameworks that I know of. Cornel is equating greed, hypocrisy, and dishonesty with disease. The former are people’s ethical responsibility, and the latter are not. I would never blame a cancer patient for having cancer, and I sense a tendency, no matter how loosely defined, to drift in that direction on discussions of original sin. Why use religion as a magnifying lens to the negative cognitive bias of all that is wrong and corrupt with us? Might a certain brand of spirituality bring out our best tendencies, our tendency to heal the sick as an example. If we are talking spiritual, and healing then it should go without saying this walks hand in hand with biology, and medical science. Why is this not our cross and communion?
Wow! This was the best discussion yet! Being a Christian, I am fully in support of Prof. Cornel West's argument that people must follow Jesus into the Temple to expel the money changers, and to do so is an act of love! All three showed that there is so much to life that there are no simple answers to the complex problems facing humanity. Fortunately God through His providence illuminates the darkness we are all engulfed in by various means, like good Russian literature and Black music!
This was amazing Glenn. This is why I pay.
It works and now I can listen on Apple Podcasts
These sort of conversations were why I subscribed to the Glenn Show. Genuine, solution-oriented discussions that are free of narratives and sincerely seek the betterment of society. It left me conflicted with numerous questions which is what a good conversation is supposed to do! Did socialism have it right partially? Did it ultimately serve society the best way it could by "smoothing out" the rough edges of the outcomes produced by capitalism. I can see that with women, children, and the old (Medicare, Medicaid, etc...). But my list ends there. The limitations of being the gender that bears children validates the accommodations for women throughout our society. Similar moral backings explain the systems for children and the old. But my ultimate question is were black people as a whole forever destined to be second-class citizens due the hue of the outermost layer of our integumentary system? Were we doomed without the socialist notions of the 60s? Can socialism even get credit for that? MLK was ultimately fighting for the birthright dignity of the individual, found in the constitution, which American society failed to live up to at the time.
In any case, great piece. Thank you.
Also...Bigger Thomas is the poor black uneducated American equivalent of Raskolnikov. They asked, “has Dostoevsky committed a murder?” when that one came out. Saying Richard Wright’s treatment of Bigger Thomas “isn’t positive” sounds a lot like asking the murder question....God I love these books....I’ve been waiting for this one!