On this episode of The Glenn Show, I’m joined by the one and only Brother Cornel West. The man probably needs no introduction, but I’ll give him one anyway. Cornel is the Dietrich Bonhoeffer Professor of Philosophy and Christian Practice at Union Theological Seminary, the author of many books, an iconic public intellectual, a celebrated activist, and now a presidential candidate competing for the Green Party nomination in 2024.
Just enjoyed seeing him doing call ins on Cspan Washington Journal. Very happy to see him on board here w Glenn - what should be a deepER dish follow up. Its been a while re Brother C - I enjoy him, have affection for dear Cornel! And I do very much agree w him in some ways. If this had been a few yrs ago, I would’ve been more broadly aligned w him, more in step w his direction, having been in my longtime progressive mode. But that soured over the past few yrs due to aspects of that realm that I never really embraced but was able to submerge until they exploded in excess and took hold - w some bad results- once Progressives held the reins of power, really dominated - not just politically but also culturally.
Hating Trump (which Cornel does not - thankfully - although he sees his “gangsta” behavior) became the approved mindset: 24/7 sanctimonious hammering at Trump, as he was The Evil, The Object to disdain & destroy. Many blindly embraced his haters as white hats, never checking for the dirt beneath their brims - bc if you did critique his critics, you were helping Evil Trump! Good gawd!
Anyway, bc of all this, and bc humans are complicated - I’m complicated … lol. But I don’t care abt sticking within the lines of any tribe. So… good catch Glenn! Will watch soon.
It's hard to think of a worse-faith defense from the spoiler question than to say "Jill Stein didn't throw the election to Trump, not enough people voted for her to do that," or "Ralph Nader didn't throw the election to Bush, not enough people voted for him to do that." Setting aside the question of whether that's in fact true— Jill Stein won more votes than separated Trump from Hillary in crucial swing states, and Nader the same with Bush and Gore— it essentially amounts to, "My project is justified, because it never succeeds." Cornel West endorsed Stein in 2016, and he is now asking people to vote for him in 2024. Had he his way, the question would certainly be relevant.
Then West says (paraphrasing here), "if you take as inevitable that American politics will always be the oscillation between Republicans and Democrats, then any attempt to break out of that cycle is considered dangerous." But this isn't _any attempt_ to break out of that cycle; it's one specific attempt, with specific, predictable consequences. There is a much better, and also more viable, path to break free of the duopoly: a ranked choice ballot that would eliminate the spoiler problem altogether. West should advocate for that, not play with fire in a country that doesn't have it yet.
I came away with a much better impression of Dr. West than I thought I would. BUT:
1) He (with some justification) condemns capitalism for its occasional short-sightedness. Does he apply the same criticism to *any* other economic system? Perhaps he would sing the praises of the environmental policies of the USSR, or current China? It seems clear that "environmentalism", rather than being a "cause" is just a "club", to be used to attack capitalism.
2) He (again, with some justification) attacks Israel for it's treatment of Palestinians. Does he apply that same standard to treatment of Jews in Arab countries? No? Why not? Could it be because there are essentially NO Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel? And why is that? At least to some extent, many of them were expelled from those states after 1948. Again, he takes a legitimate issue and selectively applies it to only one side. My cynical position is that almost no one actually cares about the Palestinians other than as a club to use against Israel. (How are the Palestinians marginalized elsewhere in the Arab world? Does anyone care?)
Still, Glenn, thanks for a very interesting interview.
And just to add to the comment on environmentalism. Environmentalism appears to be correlated with wealth/GDP -- once I'm not worried about tomorrow's meal, I can (and do) worry about the environment. Nothing raises GDP like capitialism.
I think we need more people running for parties other than the Republican and Democratic. I doubt I'll ever vote for a Green Party candidate, but I have voted for a few Libertarians.
I'm conflicted regarding West's attitude toward US foreign policy. I agree with him that there have been many unjust and unwise uses of military power, including the wars in Vietnam and Iraq. OTOH, I think he's almost entirely wrong about the situation in Eastern Europe. NATO was created to protect its members against Russian aggression and continues to do so today. Eastern European members joined voluntarily as Sweden and Finland seek to join today. OTOH, since the dissolution of the USSR, Russia has invaded several of its neighbors, including Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine, all formerly part of the Russian Empire. I don't doubt that US diplomats and politicians have made mistakes. They were not representing the state with imperial history and ambition in the region.
I appreciate the loving spirit of Dr. West and how inclusive he refers to all ethnicities as his brothers and sisters. However, as well read and intellectually aerobic as West is, he neglects to mention that there has never been a country on earth, past or present, that completely eradicated poverty. The U.S. spent over 22 trillion in anti-poverty programs in the last 50 years and yet poverty still exists. A safety net is warranted for the most vunerable but free markets are necessary for everyone to access work or create a business.
It will be interesting to see Cornell West speak to his potential Green Party audience, but in the words of Dr. King whom he greatly admires, I would suggest that he "make it plain."
I enjoyed this interview. I disagree with Dr. West on just about everything. Nevertheless, I appreciate his spirit, the care he clearly has for humanity, and his willingness to listen to and consider other perspectives.
I hate to be this cynical, because I admire Prof. West a great deal and because his command of an amazing array of disciplines seems genuinely wider and deeper than even the most elite at our most elite institutions*, but do y’all truly think thsr West was actually so read up on Glenn’s works that he’d remember a topic from Glenn’s rather technical economics dissertation from 50 years ago?** Especially given Glenn’s absolutely vast output of papers, articles, books, etc. I find it extremely implausible even for a mind like West’s. I can’t allay the suspicion that, in an attempt to … ingratiate himself to Glenn, beforehand West—or most likely an assistant—looked up a Glenn Lowry “deep cut” or two for to drop into conversation. (A more judgmental take would be that West did so to perform his intelligence; a more charitable take would be that did it to deepen a personal bond with Glenn.) It smacks to be of the gala fundraising scene from The Devil Wears Prada, in which Meryl Streep’s Anna-Wintour-based character relies on her assistants to know every guest’s name and bio so she can pretend to know all these people whom she in fact does not know from Adam. I truly don’t want to impugn such motives to West based on what I admit is speculation, but I find the other interpretation just too unlikely. Any thoughts?
*Over the years and out of pure coincidence, and not because I’m well-connected or well-versed or well-positioned or anything, I’ve on a few occasions been talking with an acquaintance who’s an academic and has a very niche specialty even with in their disciplines (e.g., one was American nineteenth-century pragmatism, which even only a few US philosophers know in depth), and by chance West’s name came up in our conversation and their casually commented that West knew that sub-sub-specialty like a true expert. So when I praise West’s depth and width I mean it sincerely!
**If I had access to university-level library databases I’d, for instance, search whether West had ever cited Glenn’s works, and the dissertation in particular, but alas I do not.
The Don King of "higher education". Although, I will say he was much less performative during this interview than usual. Perhaps being on the Glenn Show requires a more subdued performance.
Brother West is a breath of fresh air and a welcome change from the miserable shits you regularly trot out in this space. I suspect this is an oasis in the desert and you will no doubt revert to the likes of MacDonald, Wax, Goldblatt, Finkelstein, for reasons known only to yourself. Brother West has a vision of a perfect world, certainly aspirational at this point but most of the politicians being owned by the donor class don't even have that much. One thing in particular you can and should learn from Brother West is that the climate crisis is a problem not an opportunity. Green energy vs. fossil fuel is not a lifestyle choice and there is a third party in that negotiation in Mother Nature who does not negotiate or even disclose what her terms are.
I have to say, Glenn, your failure to push back on West’s blood libels against the Jews (“killing Palestinian babies”) or his using Holocaust comparisons (“never again” only for Jews) to refer to Israel’s non-stop battle against terrorists who target civilians in buses, pizza shops, in their homes and their places of worship, is simply amazing. You are so bright, so well-informed about so many things, but you swallow this crude propaganda without any retort?
My Good Brother Rev West lied about Jewish motives for “The Occupation“ making up a quote out of thing air. He is concerned only about Jewish Occupiers not caring about Kurds or the Tibetans ? Nor caring for the slaughter by “ Black Brothers “ in Sudan or Nigeria . But it is always “ The Jews” Enough anger, we are not perfect people !! Glen not pushing back on this racist rant about “The Jews” makes for the loss of a teachable moment about pointing the finger only about one people. I love Cornel especially his stuff about Coltrane but please show some grace to your Jewish Brothers.
Here are quotes that show “ Professor West” made up his Jabotinsky quote as a Bold lie. And cheap shot ...Positing him against Einstein...? WFT ? Another false equivalency!! Jabotinsky has been proven right after 100 years ( Pre Holocaust)
Jabotinsky
Do not believe anyone, be always on guard, carry your stick always with you, this is the only way of surviving in this wolfish battle of all against us.” Jabotinsky “A Man Is a Wolf to Man,” 1910
“the Arab world will never make its peace with a Jewish state until convinced by Jewish military strength and strategic superiority that such a state can never be prevented or removed by force of arms” Jabotinsky “Iron Wall” 1920
“For centuries, the nations of the world had been used to hearing that Jews were defeated here and Jews were protected there. You either defeated or protected us and it is difficult to decide what was more humiliating, the defeats or being protected. But now we will show the world a Jewish rifle with a Jewish bayonet.” Jabotinsky
This show was an absolute gift. May the fruitful dialogue spread like wildfire
Just enjoyed seeing him doing call ins on Cspan Washington Journal. Very happy to see him on board here w Glenn - what should be a deepER dish follow up. Its been a while re Brother C - I enjoy him, have affection for dear Cornel! And I do very much agree w him in some ways. If this had been a few yrs ago, I would’ve been more broadly aligned w him, more in step w his direction, having been in my longtime progressive mode. But that soured over the past few yrs due to aspects of that realm that I never really embraced but was able to submerge until they exploded in excess and took hold - w some bad results- once Progressives held the reins of power, really dominated - not just politically but also culturally.
Hating Trump (which Cornel does not - thankfully - although he sees his “gangsta” behavior) became the approved mindset: 24/7 sanctimonious hammering at Trump, as he was The Evil, The Object to disdain & destroy. Many blindly embraced his haters as white hats, never checking for the dirt beneath their brims - bc if you did critique his critics, you were helping Evil Trump! Good gawd!
Anyway, bc of all this, and bc humans are complicated - I’m complicated … lol. But I don’t care abt sticking within the lines of any tribe. So… good catch Glenn! Will watch soon.
It's hard to think of a worse-faith defense from the spoiler question than to say "Jill Stein didn't throw the election to Trump, not enough people voted for her to do that," or "Ralph Nader didn't throw the election to Bush, not enough people voted for him to do that." Setting aside the question of whether that's in fact true— Jill Stein won more votes than separated Trump from Hillary in crucial swing states, and Nader the same with Bush and Gore— it essentially amounts to, "My project is justified, because it never succeeds." Cornel West endorsed Stein in 2016, and he is now asking people to vote for him in 2024. Had he his way, the question would certainly be relevant.
Then West says (paraphrasing here), "if you take as inevitable that American politics will always be the oscillation between Republicans and Democrats, then any attempt to break out of that cycle is considered dangerous." But this isn't _any attempt_ to break out of that cycle; it's one specific attempt, with specific, predictable consequences. There is a much better, and also more viable, path to break free of the duopoly: a ranked choice ballot that would eliminate the spoiler problem altogether. West should advocate for that, not play with fire in a country that doesn't have it yet.
I came away with a much better impression of Dr. West than I thought I would. BUT:
1) He (with some justification) condemns capitalism for its occasional short-sightedness. Does he apply the same criticism to *any* other economic system? Perhaps he would sing the praises of the environmental policies of the USSR, or current China? It seems clear that "environmentalism", rather than being a "cause" is just a "club", to be used to attack capitalism.
2) He (again, with some justification) attacks Israel for it's treatment of Palestinians. Does he apply that same standard to treatment of Jews in Arab countries? No? Why not? Could it be because there are essentially NO Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel? And why is that? At least to some extent, many of them were expelled from those states after 1948. Again, he takes a legitimate issue and selectively applies it to only one side. My cynical position is that almost no one actually cares about the Palestinians other than as a club to use against Israel. (How are the Palestinians marginalized elsewhere in the Arab world? Does anyone care?)
Still, Glenn, thanks for a very interesting interview.
And just to add to the comment on environmentalism. Environmentalism appears to be correlated with wealth/GDP -- once I'm not worried about tomorrow's meal, I can (and do) worry about the environment. Nothing raises GDP like capitialism.
I think we need more people running for parties other than the Republican and Democratic. I doubt I'll ever vote for a Green Party candidate, but I have voted for a few Libertarians.
I'm conflicted regarding West's attitude toward US foreign policy. I agree with him that there have been many unjust and unwise uses of military power, including the wars in Vietnam and Iraq. OTOH, I think he's almost entirely wrong about the situation in Eastern Europe. NATO was created to protect its members against Russian aggression and continues to do so today. Eastern European members joined voluntarily as Sweden and Finland seek to join today. OTOH, since the dissolution of the USSR, Russia has invaded several of its neighbors, including Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine, all formerly part of the Russian Empire. I don't doubt that US diplomats and politicians have made mistakes. They were not representing the state with imperial history and ambition in the region.
I appreciate the loving spirit of Dr. West and how inclusive he refers to all ethnicities as his brothers and sisters. However, as well read and intellectually aerobic as West is, he neglects to mention that there has never been a country on earth, past or present, that completely eradicated poverty. The U.S. spent over 22 trillion in anti-poverty programs in the last 50 years and yet poverty still exists. A safety net is warranted for the most vunerable but free markets are necessary for everyone to access work or create a business.
It will be interesting to see Cornell West speak to his potential Green Party audience, but in the words of Dr. King whom he greatly admires, I would suggest that he "make it plain."
Your wife is beautiful Glenn. You’re a very lucky man! Greatly looking forward to this episode.
I enjoyed this interview. I disagree with Dr. West on just about everything. Nevertheless, I appreciate his spirit, the care he clearly has for humanity, and his willingness to listen to and consider other perspectives.
I hate to be this cynical, because I admire Prof. West a great deal and because his command of an amazing array of disciplines seems genuinely wider and deeper than even the most elite at our most elite institutions*, but do y’all truly think thsr West was actually so read up on Glenn’s works that he’d remember a topic from Glenn’s rather technical economics dissertation from 50 years ago?** Especially given Glenn’s absolutely vast output of papers, articles, books, etc. I find it extremely implausible even for a mind like West’s. I can’t allay the suspicion that, in an attempt to … ingratiate himself to Glenn, beforehand West—or most likely an assistant—looked up a Glenn Lowry “deep cut” or two for to drop into conversation. (A more judgmental take would be that West did so to perform his intelligence; a more charitable take would be that did it to deepen a personal bond with Glenn.) It smacks to be of the gala fundraising scene from The Devil Wears Prada, in which Meryl Streep’s Anna-Wintour-based character relies on her assistants to know every guest’s name and bio so she can pretend to know all these people whom she in fact does not know from Adam. I truly don’t want to impugn such motives to West based on what I admit is speculation, but I find the other interpretation just too unlikely. Any thoughts?
*Over the years and out of pure coincidence, and not because I’m well-connected or well-versed or well-positioned or anything, I’ve on a few occasions been talking with an acquaintance who’s an academic and has a very niche specialty even with in their disciplines (e.g., one was American nineteenth-century pragmatism, which even only a few US philosophers know in depth), and by chance West’s name came up in our conversation and their casually commented that West knew that sub-sub-specialty like a true expert. So when I praise West’s depth and width I mean it sincerely!
**If I had access to university-level library databases I’d, for instance, search whether West had ever cited Glenn’s works, and the dissertation in particular, but alas I do not.
The Don King of "higher education". Although, I will say he was much less performative during this interview than usual. Perhaps being on the Glenn Show requires a more subdued performance.
Word. Godspeed Prof Cornel West, you bring out the best in America! I hope you will return to the show with your friend Prof. Robert George.
Brother West is a breath of fresh air and a welcome change from the miserable shits you regularly trot out in this space. I suspect this is an oasis in the desert and you will no doubt revert to the likes of MacDonald, Wax, Goldblatt, Finkelstein, for reasons known only to yourself. Brother West has a vision of a perfect world, certainly aspirational at this point but most of the politicians being owned by the donor class don't even have that much. One thing in particular you can and should learn from Brother West is that the climate crisis is a problem not an opportunity. Green energy vs. fossil fuel is not a lifestyle choice and there is a third party in that negotiation in Mother Nature who does not negotiate or even disclose what her terms are.
I have to say, Glenn, your failure to push back on West’s blood libels against the Jews (“killing Palestinian babies”) or his using Holocaust comparisons (“never again” only for Jews) to refer to Israel’s non-stop battle against terrorists who target civilians in buses, pizza shops, in their homes and their places of worship, is simply amazing. You are so bright, so well-informed about so many things, but you swallow this crude propaganda without any retort?
Thank you for having Dr. West on your show!!!!!!!
My Good Brother Rev West lied about Jewish motives for “The Occupation“ making up a quote out of thing air. He is concerned only about Jewish Occupiers not caring about Kurds or the Tibetans ? Nor caring for the slaughter by “ Black Brothers “ in Sudan or Nigeria . But it is always “ The Jews” Enough anger, we are not perfect people !! Glen not pushing back on this racist rant about “The Jews” makes for the loss of a teachable moment about pointing the finger only about one people. I love Cornel especially his stuff about Coltrane but please show some grace to your Jewish Brothers.
Here are quotes that show “ Professor West” made up his Jabotinsky quote as a Bold lie. And cheap shot ...Positing him against Einstein...? WFT ? Another false equivalency!! Jabotinsky has been proven right after 100 years ( Pre Holocaust)
Jabotinsky
Do not believe anyone, be always on guard, carry your stick always with you, this is the only way of surviving in this wolfish battle of all against us.” Jabotinsky “A Man Is a Wolf to Man,” 1910
“the Arab world will never make its peace with a Jewish state until convinced by Jewish military strength and strategic superiority that such a state can never be prevented or removed by force of arms” Jabotinsky “Iron Wall” 1920
“For centuries, the nations of the world had been used to hearing that Jews were defeated here and Jews were protected there. You either defeated or protected us and it is difficult to decide what was more humiliating, the defeats or being protected. But now we will show the world a Jewish rifle with a Jewish bayonet.” Jabotinsky