My guest this week is Daniel Bessner, associate professor of history at the University of Washington and a man of the left. But this isn’t a culture war sparring match—in fact, you may be surprised at how often we find ourselves in agreement. According to him history is in decline. Not capital-H “History,” but the professional study of history. With tenured professorships in his field disappearing and low-paying, precarious teaching positions becoming the norm, he wonders whether history as a discipline will be able to survive.
I agree with Bressner's perspective on foreign policy (Ukraine is not a strategic interest, the Biden Administration believes it's the 1980's, Europe should take care of itself). Interestingly, his views track with Trump's approach to foreign policy - kinda weird for a Bernie supporter (BTW Bernie supports the Ukraine War).
I am not sure why the fact that the West's share of world GDP is shrinking is a concern - isn't that the whole point of capitalism - to lift all boats towards prosperity. Bressner's belief that Marxism missed its golden opportunity strikes me as just another Marxist idealistic take on how Marxism coulda/woulda/shoulda succeeded. That ship sailed long ago.
Psychiatric medication use is not 90%, but it is quite high and is rising dramatically. This publication is pre-COVID and does not give lifetime rates of having tried medication, but it still reports over 15% of college students on SSRIs or SNRIs, which is a substantial minority.
Americans are historically illiterate, so this doesn't surprise me.
Perhaps it's the conspiracy theorist in me, but I think the decline of teaching history, and the propagandized view of history in AP text books is designed to separate Americans from their past. If one's goal is to destroy lockean and kantian ethics, and the values on which America was founded, then the best way is to create a society where nobody remembers any of their arguments.
If you want to bring Marxism back, for example, then it doesn't make any sense to teach anyone about how Marx was wrong about the labor theory of value, or about how carl menger totally destroyed his precepts; it makes more sense to create a society of morons; people who get elected to office, like AOC, who think that Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes are the same person. She said "Milton Keynes" was wrong about economics, which would normally be hilarious except for the fact that she's been voted into office. If someone that uneducated is voted into office, then you wonder about the education of the people voting for her.
But perhaps that is the goal, because if you can get enough AOC's into office, then you presumably can tear down the fabric of the enlightenment.
The Marxist’s always want to take capital away from the capitalists and use it for their own ends, in the name of fairness. However, they do not innovate. Whatever they have stagnates. Or in the case of the Chinese they steal intellectual property from others. Our good fortune is based on innovation. Bresner has no conception of how that works
I don't know, Glen. I didn't gain loads from this one. Perhaps I was too distracted because Daniel reminded me of my uncle, a certain type of university professor who always seemed a bit removed from reality and was also incessantly carping at the administration on petty issues and enjoying it too much. Over the course of my own life, I've fallen into the habit of measuring a person by answering the question, "Would I follow that guy uphill into battle." Glen, I'd follow you. I find myself saying I wouldn't follow Daniel downhill to the pub. I don't like how unkind that sounds. It's just that I'm well into my seventh decade and have heard much of this stuff before.
I enjoyed the conversation, including the airing of different views. Bessner could stand to be more reflective about the decline in history majors. History departments, like many other programs in the humanities, undermine their appeal and credibility because of their strong ideological commitments.
He says most academics are center left, then precedes to give a Marxist critique and says capitalism is failed. Center people don't usually identify as Marxists. Radical leftist do. Maybe I'm wrong?
Bessner mounts excellent critiques of the status quo, but his explanations for the source of the problems he identifies are often wanting. Really appreciate hearing his perspective for an hour- I learned!
I’m sure there’ll be professors to replace the old ones, they just won’t be teaching actual history: they’ll be teaching woke identity revisionist propaganda, a la the 1619 Project.
"According to the American Mathematical Society, about 15% of mathematics PhD graduates in the United States obtain tenure-track positions at four-year institutions. However, this number can be as low as 10% or as high as 20%, depending on the specific field of mathematics and the prestige of the PhD program."
What to PhD advisors do when they know 80 to 90 percent of their students have no chance of obtaining a tenured position in academia?
Word. I think the West is underestimated by its opponents. This talk of American decline was there also in the late 70s, but a decade later it was the Soviet Union that disintegrated.
Bessner drives me nuts when he casually dismisses fundamental issues like supply and demand. Either way, I love these conversations; it’s good to hear some alternative viewpoints that challenge the ideas traditionally espoused here.
Around minute 45 Dr. Bessner says something to the effect that capitalism, racism, and exploitation go together?
And yet, it's under capitalism that gay rights, feminism, abolitionism, and the huge attenuation of racism takes place. Americans of Dr. Bessner's persuasion should really be more intimate of what life is like in so many other countries....
It’s not surprising that Daniel Bessner, a tenured professor, would determine adjunct professors (Gig academics) provide subpar academic experiences for their students. I question his sources for data to prove this. To me it is like the public schools declaring charter schools incapable of educating students. Throughout my higher education I had some excellent professors, both tenured and adjunct.
Nice discussion as always Dr. Loury. I admit to being shocked that the highly credentialed Prof. Bessmer can not conceive of:
1) A land war in central Europe sucking a conflicted USA into saving Western European democracies yet again. We never wanted to be Europes policemen but they can't stop invading each other.
2) A victorious Russia's stategically obvious next move is not invading Poland, much more likely is isolating the Baltic states and defeating them in detail thus demonstrating to all that USA led NATO will not defend fledgling democraies that were in the former USSR sphere of influence.
I have watched all of the sessions with Besner. This was the first one that I came away from not wanting to punch him in the face. I think his insights on higher education are really good and thoughtful. It’s also valuable to question the strategic value of Ukraine and Taiwan. Yan Shen does a good job of making the case for Taiwan’s significance.
It almost seems like Besner has given up on Communism and has become a “Real Politique” guy.
Given Besner’s long term support for Bernie, it would have been interesting to ask him what Bernie has contributed lately to anything. Bernie doesn’t know the difference between equity and equality and admits it on TV. Where is Bernie on the Ukraine. We know where he is on Israel.
That was a wild ride!
I agree with Bressner's perspective on foreign policy (Ukraine is not a strategic interest, the Biden Administration believes it's the 1980's, Europe should take care of itself). Interestingly, his views track with Trump's approach to foreign policy - kinda weird for a Bernie supporter (BTW Bernie supports the Ukraine War).
I am not sure why the fact that the West's share of world GDP is shrinking is a concern - isn't that the whole point of capitalism - to lift all boats towards prosperity. Bressner's belief that Marxism missed its golden opportunity strikes me as just another Marxist idealistic take on how Marxism coulda/woulda/shoulda succeeded. That ship sailed long ago.
https://accpjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/phar.2513
Psychiatric medication use is not 90%, but it is quite high and is rising dramatically. This publication is pre-COVID and does not give lifetime rates of having tried medication, but it still reports over 15% of college students on SSRIs or SNRIs, which is a substantial minority.
Americans are historically illiterate, so this doesn't surprise me.
Perhaps it's the conspiracy theorist in me, but I think the decline of teaching history, and the propagandized view of history in AP text books is designed to separate Americans from their past. If one's goal is to destroy lockean and kantian ethics, and the values on which America was founded, then the best way is to create a society where nobody remembers any of their arguments.
If you want to bring Marxism back, for example, then it doesn't make any sense to teach anyone about how Marx was wrong about the labor theory of value, or about how carl menger totally destroyed his precepts; it makes more sense to create a society of morons; people who get elected to office, like AOC, who think that Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes are the same person. She said "Milton Keynes" was wrong about economics, which would normally be hilarious except for the fact that she's been voted into office. If someone that uneducated is voted into office, then you wonder about the education of the people voting for her.
But perhaps that is the goal, because if you can get enough AOC's into office, then you presumably can tear down the fabric of the enlightenment.
The Marxist’s always want to take capital away from the capitalists and use it for their own ends, in the name of fairness. However, they do not innovate. Whatever they have stagnates. Or in the case of the Chinese they steal intellectual property from others. Our good fortune is based on innovation. Bresner has no conception of how that works
I don't know, Glen. I didn't gain loads from this one. Perhaps I was too distracted because Daniel reminded me of my uncle, a certain type of university professor who always seemed a bit removed from reality and was also incessantly carping at the administration on petty issues and enjoying it too much. Over the course of my own life, I've fallen into the habit of measuring a person by answering the question, "Would I follow that guy uphill into battle." Glen, I'd follow you. I find myself saying I wouldn't follow Daniel downhill to the pub. I don't like how unkind that sounds. It's just that I'm well into my seventh decade and have heard much of this stuff before.
I enjoyed the conversation, including the airing of different views. Bessner could stand to be more reflective about the decline in history majors. History departments, like many other programs in the humanities, undermine their appeal and credibility because of their strong ideological commitments.
He says most academics are center left, then precedes to give a Marxist critique and says capitalism is failed. Center people don't usually identify as Marxists. Radical leftist do. Maybe I'm wrong?
Bessner mounts excellent critiques of the status quo, but his explanations for the source of the problems he identifies are often wanting. Really appreciate hearing his perspective for an hour- I learned!
I’m sure there’ll be professors to replace the old ones, they just won’t be teaching actual history: they’ll be teaching woke identity revisionist propaganda, a la the 1619 Project.
https://michaelmohr.substack.com/p/being-a-free-thinker
"According to the American Mathematical Society, about 15% of mathematics PhD graduates in the United States obtain tenure-track positions at four-year institutions. However, this number can be as low as 10% or as high as 20%, depending on the specific field of mathematics and the prestige of the PhD program."
What to PhD advisors do when they know 80 to 90 percent of their students have no chance of obtaining a tenured position in academia?
The story of Eric Weinstein at Harvard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgGZMRJ15oY
Word. I think the West is underestimated by its opponents. This talk of American decline was there also in the late 70s, but a decade later it was the Soviet Union that disintegrated.
Bessner drives me nuts when he casually dismisses fundamental issues like supply and demand. Either way, I love these conversations; it’s good to hear some alternative viewpoints that challenge the ideas traditionally espoused here.
Around minute 45 Dr. Bessner says something to the effect that capitalism, racism, and exploitation go together?
And yet, it's under capitalism that gay rights, feminism, abolitionism, and the huge attenuation of racism takes place. Americans of Dr. Bessner's persuasion should really be more intimate of what life is like in so many other countries....
It’s not surprising that Daniel Bessner, a tenured professor, would determine adjunct professors (Gig academics) provide subpar academic experiences for their students. I question his sources for data to prove this. To me it is like the public schools declaring charter schools incapable of educating students. Throughout my higher education I had some excellent professors, both tenured and adjunct.
Nice discussion as always Dr. Loury. I admit to being shocked that the highly credentialed Prof. Bessmer can not conceive of:
1) A land war in central Europe sucking a conflicted USA into saving Western European democracies yet again. We never wanted to be Europes policemen but they can't stop invading each other.
2) A victorious Russia's stategically obvious next move is not invading Poland, much more likely is isolating the Baltic states and defeating them in detail thus demonstrating to all that USA led NATO will not defend fledgling democraies that were in the former USSR sphere of influence.
Bad history, bad stategic reasoning.
I have watched all of the sessions with Besner. This was the first one that I came away from not wanting to punch him in the face. I think his insights on higher education are really good and thoughtful. It’s also valuable to question the strategic value of Ukraine and Taiwan. Yan Shen does a good job of making the case for Taiwan’s significance.
It almost seems like Besner has given up on Communism and has become a “Real Politique” guy.
Given Besner’s long term support for Bernie, it would have been interesting to ask him what Bernie has contributed lately to anything. Bernie doesn’t know the difference between equity and equality and admits it on TV. Where is Bernie on the Ukraine. We know where he is on Israel.