Glenn: I'm commenting here as I don't know how else to reach you. On another subject.
Your listeners could also benefit for an update and clarification on our state of monetary policy (and tricks) and the threat of a change in the petro-dollar sales in oil
The Trump//Biden administrations have outright printed 5 trillion in Covid Money which has its cause in current inflation (some economist estimate at 50% of what we are experiencing (IDK). (This is MMT-like)
Also, Biden in his cutely named Inflation Reduction Act, seems to stay "traditional" in "Pay-for", which, will likely never be "Paid-for".
Representative John Yarmuth’s (D, KY-03), Chair of the House Budget Committee, in which he explicitly adopts or advocates to adopt an MMT approach to budgeting.
I'm one "Joe Six-Pack" who is trying to understand all this (how Inflation and product pricing increases - how and why monetary inflation (government printing) is affecting my life.
We know you, mostly as a philosopher on Social issues. But you are a renowned economist. I, for one would appreciate your addressing our purchasing destruction.
Even among Black Americans ON THE LEFT there is enough disagreement that it is only non-Black people who make the mistake that Black Americans are the Borg. Also some Black Americans (like Pauli Murray or even Clint Smith in "How The Word Is Passed") have very emphatically not found mystical African roots in contemporary African countries and have been willing to take their chances with American political culture. Black Americans could have more opportunity to learn how they have been shaped by American political culture and how positive they think that is.
You do not but when talking about African Americans one is talking about a deliberately miseducated people who as shown in the infamous "presentism" essay will grab for any scrap of history or myth about themselves. My thought was the more that African Americans see Africans and members of the Black diaspora grappling with this history the more that they will pursue education as a way to be part of that.
What you just mentioned does not happen. There really isn't any natural affinity between these groups of people who likely speak different languages, have different religions, and have different cultures. Any increased interest among African Americans will be due to personal goals, and not some vague Afrocentric Black unity that doesn't pan out in real life. It just doesn't. And you have miseducation all around the world, not just in the United States.
But an alliance between African Americans and newly arrived immigrants from Latin America is not intuitively obvious at all. Latino immigrants are working out their own problems about what being American and from their country of origin means. (Puerto Ricans are American citizens so not Immigrants.)
Obviously from the Black Atlantic perspective more circulation among all of the countries with substantial Black population is a good thing for African Americans because it makes African Americans more aware of what their real heritage is. This may make African Americans more open to education that would increase their earning power.
You don't need to know what your real heritage is to be open to education. I mean I'm all for travel but more circulation between different countries with lots of Black people is not necessarily beneficial in part because it is grouping people together by race, as if that is all they are.
1. African-Americans are not standing in line to do the menial work most immigrants take to survive: kitchen scud work, picking produce, sweeping streets, etc. Those with aspirations aim higher; so there is little to be concerned about in this connection for those on a higher trajectory. Those with lower aspirations willing to settle for less shall feel some slight competition, but with employers hungering for workers at all skill levels, should this be a worry? Anyone of any color not aiming higher gets what the market dispenses.
I have a problem with "lower aspirations". Illegal immigrants know their options are limited, but they have a family to feed either here or back home, so their aspirations are of no consequence. The "higher aspirations" are often for their children's future. So "not aiming higher" sounds rather harsh.
If you write a comment it is best to save it somewhere, e.g. in Text Edit or a similar program. A problem can always occur and losing some just-written text is infuriating. If saved, you can re-load your comment. I learned this trick the hard way too.
Also: if you want to pound on me like some others here, please be kind.
I wish I could copy the relevant paragraph, but when Loury makes the “Bullshit!” Charge it is really a poor substitute for argument. As a self-identified rational and intellectual person, you should acknowledge this.
I grew up in NY and NJ, and witnessed regular race controversies, from Howard Beach to Tawanna Bradley to Freddie’s Fashion Mart. So, I was surely sensitized to these issues. I moved to LA for a couple of years in the mid-oughts. I was struck by the animosity between the local Black community and the Hispanics in that community. I had no idea they were at each other’s throats before I arrived. But, I grew to understand the arguments from the Black neighborhoods that the immigrants were driving wages down for the unskilled and/or manual laborers. It was unsettling, but also understandable.
During the riots of 1991 (after the 1st Rodney King verdict) a lot of small shops owned/operated by Asian families in African-American neighborhoods were targeted.
Libertarians often struggle to reconcile open borders with the welfare state, and this scenario is playing out across Europe, too. When people enter your country but ignore its ways, its customs, its language, and so forth, that's not immigration. It's an invasion. A border is among the key defining characteristics of a country. And if enough people from over there move over here and refuse to assimilate, eventually over here starts to look a lot over there. The question is whether immigration is good for a country or not. Legal immigration.
That is of course in part because of recent history. Some countries denied Jewish people entrance before WW2. Germany after the war vowed to admit refugees. No-one could foresee what coming. West-European countries allowed employers to bring in guest-workers. Many of them found a permanent job, stayed, brought wife/children. Any protest from workers afraid of where this might lead - as they saw the equipment taken from their factories, crated, and sent to low-cost countries like India - was labeled "racism".
People will keep coming as long as there is famine, war, violence. IMO the only way to mitigate this is by allowing larger numbers to immigrate legally. If people have a chance to do it correctly they will do so. But currently you cannot immigrate into the US unless you have a US citizen family member (in some case Permanent Resident). Some refugees/asylum-seekers come in too, as do a number of Visa Lottery winners.
A limited number of STEM workers is also allowed in every year. But they must be willing to go to hell and back - and have wives willing to give up everything and more.
Black Americans have been led astray if they believe Latino immigrants will help their causes. There are two main reasons for this:
1) Latino countries have entrenched “White supremacy” and everyone pretty much accepts it. From Cuba to Colombia, it is White people who control politics and the economy. If a person marries someone “less white”, they are often casually shunned, and disinherited if the family has money (“less white” ranges from the Indigenas to Chinese migrants to Black descendants of slaves). No one seriously questions this, nor does anything substantive to change it. Not Fidel Castro and not the migrants crossing the border today. Many who can now vote in America are turning to the Republicans since Trump made it ok to openly hold on to their racial beliefs of “darker is bad”…these are beliefs they brought from their home countries. And since they can now live among other people from Latin America due to large influx during last 3 decades, these racist beliefs tend to go unquestioned in their new U.S. milieu.
There is one truth that Black American folks do not want to look at: Aside from them, it is only the White, Western liberal who campaigns for “racial equality”. It is only the White, Western thinker who is their ally. Nowhere else on the planet is there a belief in “racial equality”. Just look: from Japan to China to Dubai from Buenos Aires to Caracas. Is a racial caste system in place that favors one race? Yes. Only in Europe and North America is “racial equity” seriously considered.
When you carelessly dilute the culture of the White, Western liberal man you also dilute the only culture on the planet who is even working on “racial equality and equity”.
2) Economics: this is all pretty obvious, but somehow no one talks about it.
a) more competition for entry level housing due to the influx of migrants negatively affects Black Americans.
b) more competition for unskilled, and semi-skilled labor holds down wages and once a critical mass of an immigrant country gets to control a sector, Blacks are quickly excluded (and business then takes place in Spanish, further excluding American Blacks). This can be seen in the construction and restaurant/hospitality industry.
Who sold Black Americans on the scam that “non White migration” is good for them? Do they not realize that these Latino migrants they call “not White” think of themselves as “white” or “closer to white”, and will just turn around and exclude them, with not one iota of “White Guilt”….?
1. In Europe "racial equity and equality" is written into laws, in part as a result of a history in which white Europeans saw themselves as better and therefore aa being allowed to plunder the developing world. (Oh wait, we are still doing that.) So when you talk about carelessly diluting the culture of the "white western liberal man", that sounds scary to me. Reminds me of that famous "white man's burden".
2. This is one of the issues prof. Matloff sees: Black people pushed out of entry/mid-level jobs by the influx of migrants, many illegal. I have saw, in Central Valley CA, people not being hired for a job because they did not speak Hispanic, and some fired because of it.
However according to the CATO institute: FACT: Immigrants don’t take American jobs, lower wages, or push the poor out of the labor market. And “Immigrants increase economic inequality.” FACT: Maybe. The evidence on how immigration affects economic inequality in the United States is mixed — some research finds relatively small effects, and some finds substantial ones. The standard of living is much more important than is the income distribution.
Housing, or better the shortage of, is indeed an issue that is worry-some. Tens of thousands of people are coming in and will need housing. We have already in (and around) many cities rows of tents with people "living" in them. These people need proper housing.
In short: the jury is still out on all of this. More research should be done.
It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of sex and race in America, and pretty sure it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race and sex in other Western countries like Canada and Australia. Countries in Latin America have passed laws again this as well. Obviously, enforcement varies from country to country
Actually, the United States has multiple agencies at the federal and state level that investigate allegations of racism, and proven allegations go to court to be ruled again. I know this system well because I have filed hundreds of complaints for all sorts of discrimination, mainly sex, sexual orientation, and race. Title V outlaws racial discrimination. Title VI outlaws discrimination based on race, religion, or nationality in federally funded programs. Title VII outlaws discrimination based on race, sex, religion, and sexual orientation in employment. Title IX outlaws sex discrimination in federally funded educational institutions. Various state laws also apply and the US has 50 states.
Meaning one cannot legally have organizations or programs for women, for lgbtq, or race based programs. Education and employment can only be awarded on the basis of individual merit, and help like social services can only be based on individual need. Sex, race, and sexual orientation cannot be factors.
What you describe is completely different. In the US you are not allowed to do certain things, in Europe you are not allowed to think about these things.
If you are so prone to sue could you please stop reacting to my postings ?
There's also another reason why I mentioned my experience filing lawsuits. It is an outright LIE than anyone Black is prevented from going to medical or any other school in the United States. Anyone would know that's illegal discrimination. However, one must score well on the MCATS and have a high GPA and they won't get accepted. A lot of poor Americans don't prioritize academics among their children. But for those that do RAISE their children will and take RESPONSIBILITY for the education of their children, of course medical school or any other school is possible.
Why stop reacting to your postings? You do want to know how people really change or solve things in the United States, don't you? Simply talking does absolutely nothing because no one will care, for starters.
There are not stronger. I have lived in Europe too. Freedom of speech is very important. Otherwise someone can cry racism just to stifle a point that they may not like, without regards to whether it is true or not.
What you describe is exactly what happens in Europe, for about fifty years now - people crying "racist" thus making impossible much needed discussion about employment, housing, healthcare, crime. How long did you live in Europe and in what kind of a position ? Maybe your skin color has protected you from limitations on what you were allowed to say. The lack of discourse is one of the reasons so many right-wing parties are now growing in some European countries.
PhD student in Europe. And not everything is about a person's skin color. I was able to get two European citizens via Sephardic heritage, and no I am not white. My PhD program also helped.
Now here is where I make fun of people. You seem to think of both Black Americans and Latin Americans as the borg. The borg are cyborgs from Star Trek, with one mind split between many different bodies. As in you don't seem to see either Black people or Latin Americans as individuals.
Example, there are different opinions among Black people on immigration. Very different. Latin Americans have different opinions on Black people, plus conditions re: Black people are different from country to country.
Oh please anyone who had spent a number of years on this Earth knows that people have independent thought (except those right-wing). Even my pet-rats had different ideas on what was good food, how to decorate their house, which music they liked to listen to, etc.
You mean except left wing. You're constantly categorizing Americans and others by race, as if people in the same race somehow all like each other or care about each other or have the same interests.
I knew you were gonna say that ! We call it "kicking in an open door."
I am not categorizing USers by race, I might be an ejit (I keep answering) but I am not stupid. I have met too many different human beings in my life to know that race is a minor detail in what makes a person.
I never heard Prez Trump say "dark is bad". He questioned the Visa Lottery and the policy of family reunion (at absurdum) currently in place, leaving a small number of visas for the high level immigrants this country needs to stay competitive in science & technology.
Glenn, on the matter of immigration I think our focus has been distracted by the problem of Hispanics crossing the Southern border in large numbers. I agree with Amy Wax that even elite immigration from South Asia and East Asia may have had unintended consequences that have been detrimental to our social fabric.
Asian American immigration skyrocketed after the Immigration Act of 1965, but even prior to 1990-2000 Asian American dominance in academics wasn’t nearly as disproportionate as it is now. A few years back Thomas Jefferson High School reached peaked Asian when its incoming class was 73% Asian and 18% white. These percentages were basically reversed around 1990. In various parts of the country elite immigration from South Asia and East Asia over the past 2-3 decades have shifted demographics at many of the elite high schools around the country. In NYC the former chancellor of education Richard Carranza frequently clashed with the Chinese American community over disproportionate representation of Asian Americans at schools like Stuyvesant. NYC does appear to be an outlier in that the Asian American community there actually has the highest poverty rate but regardless, the general trend still stands.
Asian Americans make up a fair share of the 6-member International Mathematics Olympiad team for the United States these days, but prior to the early 1990s there weren’t nearly so many Asian Americans on these teams and Jewish Americans were far more prevalent. Likewise Asian American SAT scores have continued to increase at rates far exceeding the increase in SAT scores for other ethnic groups over the past decade or so. I would also point out that in tech where I work, companies frequently present diversity statistics showing that at many elite companies Asian Americans might make up between 20-50% of workers in technical roles. This is misleading because a non-trivial percentage of those Asian Americans aren’t citizens or permanent residents and are on a work visa of some kind. Thus, the pool of Asian workers at these companies is being drawn from a much larger global population rather than the 6% of the general American population that’s of Asian descent.
I point this out because we seem to be obsessed with group disparities in America especially post-George Floyd. Yet few people seem to be able to think rationally about how even elite immigration might be detrimental as far as maintaining our social cohesion and exacerbating the group disparities that persist in this country. Opportunities for native born Americans of all races would surely increase if we weren’t so focused on attracting as many of the best and brightest from around the world.
It does seem like increasing geopolitical tension might resolve the elite immigration problem with respect to China over the coming years but I feel like the general point still stands. You can’t just open the floodgates to the entire world and tell it to send over its best and brightest and then lament the fact that Black and Hispanic Americans seem to be underperforming relative to Asian and white Americans as a result.
After 2000, admitting foreign students at US colleges/universities grew into a 35 Billion industry. They significant higher pay the out-of-state fee. As most educational institutes are not-for-profi they are allowed to keep the whole amount.
After 1995 employers discovered the just started H-1B program and (mis)used it to bring large numbers of tech workers into the US. That was not how the program was meant - originally it included chiroprators, ethnic restaurant chefs. But times were good and anything ending in .com was a way to earn a lot of money. The number of workers allowed in was revised upward several times, considerably. Politicians always need money for their war-chest so no protests there. Originally the max period a worker could be here was six years. But soon after 2000 it became possible for an employer to request indefinite extensions. By now a few Million non-immigrant workers from India (and China) - and wives/kids - are waiting for their Green Card, as it takes up to 20 years before a visa# becomes available: about 70,000 visas are yearly issued to workers. So much for the idea "let's first see what we have".
Re. Immigrants from India. US immigrations (USCIS) has a more than twelve year back-log in processing immigration applications from non-immigrant Indian workers. This caused by the per county limit. Why so many immigrants from India ? Because many co.'s figured out that well-educated foreign people imported, could be hired-out in the US for significant money. Their number went up around 2000 when the employers thanks to their Y2K-scam managed to bring in about three times as many foreign workers as was previously allowed under the so-called H-1B cap.
So you're saying let's try to work with what we have here before admitting large numbers of educated elites. Sounds reasonable, but is our current educational system up to teaching American born kids what they really need, instead of idealogy?
As far as unlimited immigration, Black Americans will do exactly what they are told to by the Democratic Party or they will be instantly replaced, demononized, and driven from power.
To me, it's all about fairness. My friends from India come here, after taking out loans to pay for their college degree in India, waiting in line to get a H1B visa, then have to wait 18 years (current wait time) before they can get the green card. During those 18 years, their life is no joke. They are at the mercy of their employer, they are employed in states like CA where rents are high and saving is harder, they have to send money back home to support their parents, they send their kids to public school, yet don't have a say in local elections and important issues such as school choice, so they are doomed to a half-life for about 2 decades. During this time, they are also careful to dot every i and cross every t, and not stray an inch outside of the Law, lest it jeopardize their legal status. They do all of this for the sake of eventual American citizenship. Compare these people with the guy who walks in across the border, is welcomed with open arms, gets legal status and a path to 'fast-track' citizenship. He can even commit crimes without harming his legal status as long as it's not too egregious. How is this fair?
Talking about fairness and immigration. How is it fair that children illegally brought in can apply for DACA but that non-US born children of legal non-immigrants are kicked out once they turn 21 (age out). Their legal status is the problem ! Also, E-visa holders cannot apply for a Green Card so eventually they have to leave, after a lifetime of giving it all.
Fairness is not that people in India pay (with loaned money) for a degree and then can expect to be issued an H-1B to come to work in the US. It is the responsibility of Indians to make India, a better, more prosperous, country. Obeying the law is a requirement every person in the US has to meet, not just H-1B's aspiring to get a Green Card.
That said, I hear you. We immigrated on H-1B/H-4 in 1994 and basically my life went to hell. "For the male a job, for the woman, nothing". So yes I too see with amazement - for years already - how illegal immigrants are either tolerated/welcomed. Although thanks to Prez Clinton they have to travel through a large area of desert, or swim the Rio Grande and navigate razored barbed wire, often jeopardizing their life. I think you paint the position of illegal immigrant too rosy, but indeed those who manage to become asylum seekers can get to work a few months later. H-4's have wait about six years before they can get to work, IF an immigrant procedure is started for the husband - and often the employer is unwilling to do this. Six years is a large gap on the resume and for many businesses that makes someone unemployable.
Currently there is a shortage of workers, so why are H-4's/O-3's not allowed to work ? I keep asking this, experts, economists, politicians, but no one gives an answer.
Back to immigration. An issue hardly acknowledged: changing demographics make that lower level workers are now asked to speak Hispanic. If they cannot, they will not get the job or will lose their job.
The experts are divided in two camps. Prof Petri insists immigration does not cause workers to lose jobs, does not bring/hold down wages. Prof. Borjas en prof. Matloff found the opposite.
Tupac > 10*Biggie
Glenn: I'm commenting here as I don't know how else to reach you. On another subject.
Your listeners could also benefit for an update and clarification on our state of monetary policy (and tricks) and the threat of a change in the petro-dollar sales in oil
The Trump//Biden administrations have outright printed 5 trillion in Covid Money which has its cause in current inflation (some economist estimate at 50% of what we are experiencing (IDK). (This is MMT-like)
Also, Biden in his cutely named Inflation Reduction Act, seems to stay "traditional" in "Pay-for", which, will likely never be "Paid-for".
Representative John Yarmuth’s (D, KY-03), Chair of the House Budget Committee, in which he explicitly adopts or advocates to adopt an MMT approach to budgeting.
I'm one "Joe Six-Pack" who is trying to understand all this (how Inflation and product pricing increases - how and why monetary inflation (government printing) is affecting my life.
We know you, mostly as a philosopher on Social issues. But you are a renowned economist. I, for one would appreciate your addressing our purchasing destruction.
What is our government doing to us? https://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/e_pamphlet_2.pdf
Even among Black Americans ON THE LEFT there is enough disagreement that it is only non-Black people who make the mistake that Black Americans are the Borg. Also some Black Americans (like Pauli Murray or even Clint Smith in "How The Word Is Passed") have very emphatically not found mystical African roots in contemporary African countries and have been willing to take their chances with American political culture. Black Americans could have more opportunity to learn how they have been shaped by American political culture and how positive they think that is.
You do not but when talking about African Americans one is talking about a deliberately miseducated people who as shown in the infamous "presentism" essay will grab for any scrap of history or myth about themselves. My thought was the more that African Americans see Africans and members of the Black diaspora grappling with this history the more that they will pursue education as a way to be part of that.
My latest podcast is a reply to this concept. Black Americans are not the borg from Star Trek, a hive mind with no individual thought split among different bodies. I think a lot of people in politics forget this. https://justingaffneysamuels.substack.com/p/stop-attacking-white-men-and-putting?sd=pf
I did believe I was replying to this but it is under the main thread again.
What you just mentioned does not happen. There really isn't any natural affinity between these groups of people who likely speak different languages, have different religions, and have different cultures. Any increased interest among African Americans will be due to personal goals, and not some vague Afrocentric Black unity that doesn't pan out in real life. It just doesn't. And you have miseducation all around the world, not just in the United States.
But an alliance between African Americans and newly arrived immigrants from Latin America is not intuitively obvious at all. Latino immigrants are working out their own problems about what being American and from their country of origin means. (Puerto Ricans are American citizens so not Immigrants.)
You might check out my latest podcast for my thoughts on the matter. https://justingaffneysamuels.substack.com/p/stop-attacking-white-men-and-putting?sd=pf
Obviously from the Black Atlantic perspective more circulation among all of the countries with substantial Black population is a good thing for African Americans because it makes African Americans more aware of what their real heritage is. This may make African Americans more open to education that would increase their earning power.
You don't need to know what your real heritage is to be open to education. I mean I'm all for travel but more circulation between different countries with lots of Black people is not necessarily beneficial in part because it is grouping people together by race, as if that is all they are.
I replied to myself instead of you but please read it :)
1. African-Americans are not standing in line to do the menial work most immigrants take to survive: kitchen scud work, picking produce, sweeping streets, etc. Those with aspirations aim higher; so there is little to be concerned about in this connection for those on a higher trajectory. Those with lower aspirations willing to settle for less shall feel some slight competition, but with employers hungering for workers at all skill levels, should this be a worry? Anyone of any color not aiming higher gets what the market dispenses.
I have a problem with "lower aspirations". Illegal immigrants know their options are limited, but they have a family to feed either here or back home, so their aspirations are of no consequence. The "higher aspirations" are often for their children's future. So "not aiming higher" sounds rather harsh.
I wrote a comment as invited, in your "comment" section. It did not go through. Crappy deal. I refuse to re-write it. Loury: Fix your damned website!
Who is this comment meant for ?
If you write a comment it is best to save it somewhere, e.g. in Text Edit or a similar program. A problem can always occur and losing some just-written text is infuriating. If saved, you can re-load your comment. I learned this trick the hard way too.
Also: if you want to pound on me like some others here, please be kind.
I wish I could copy the relevant paragraph, but when Loury makes the “Bullshit!” Charge it is really a poor substitute for argument. As a self-identified rational and intellectual person, you should acknowledge this.
Q.E.D.
I grew up in NY and NJ, and witnessed regular race controversies, from Howard Beach to Tawanna Bradley to Freddie’s Fashion Mart. So, I was surely sensitized to these issues. I moved to LA for a couple of years in the mid-oughts. I was struck by the animosity between the local Black community and the Hispanics in that community. I had no idea they were at each other’s throats before I arrived. But, I grew to understand the arguments from the Black neighborhoods that the immigrants were driving wages down for the unskilled and/or manual laborers. It was unsettling, but also understandable.
During the riots of 1991 (after the 1st Rodney King verdict) a lot of small shops owned/operated by Asian families in African-American neighborhoods were targeted.
Libertarians often struggle to reconcile open borders with the welfare state, and this scenario is playing out across Europe, too. When people enter your country but ignore its ways, its customs, its language, and so forth, that's not immigration. It's an invasion. A border is among the key defining characteristics of a country. And if enough people from over there move over here and refuse to assimilate, eventually over here starts to look a lot over there. The question is whether immigration is good for a country or not. Legal immigration.
That is of course in part because of recent history. Some countries denied Jewish people entrance before WW2. Germany after the war vowed to admit refugees. No-one could foresee what coming. West-European countries allowed employers to bring in guest-workers. Many of them found a permanent job, stayed, brought wife/children. Any protest from workers afraid of where this might lead - as they saw the equipment taken from their factories, crated, and sent to low-cost countries like India - was labeled "racism".
The Globalists want open borders.
Who are those Globalists ?
WEF, the Davos crowd, Liberal Elites bent on saving the world by putting the Third World into miserable conditions.
A lot of truth in this remark.
Legal immigration, let’s debate the merits. Illegal, nothing to talk about. “Go sell crazy somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.”
People will keep coming as long as there is famine, war, violence. IMO the only way to mitigate this is by allowing larger numbers to immigrate legally. If people have a chance to do it correctly they will do so. But currently you cannot immigrate into the US unless you have a US citizen family member (in some case Permanent Resident). Some refugees/asylum-seekers come in too, as do a number of Visa Lottery winners.
A limited number of STEM workers is also allowed in every year. But they must be willing to go to hell and back - and have wives willing to give up everything and more.
Black Americans have been led astray if they believe Latino immigrants will help their causes. There are two main reasons for this:
1) Latino countries have entrenched “White supremacy” and everyone pretty much accepts it. From Cuba to Colombia, it is White people who control politics and the economy. If a person marries someone “less white”, they are often casually shunned, and disinherited if the family has money (“less white” ranges from the Indigenas to Chinese migrants to Black descendants of slaves). No one seriously questions this, nor does anything substantive to change it. Not Fidel Castro and not the migrants crossing the border today. Many who can now vote in America are turning to the Republicans since Trump made it ok to openly hold on to their racial beliefs of “darker is bad”…these are beliefs they brought from their home countries. And since they can now live among other people from Latin America due to large influx during last 3 decades, these racist beliefs tend to go unquestioned in their new U.S. milieu.
There is one truth that Black American folks do not want to look at: Aside from them, it is only the White, Western liberal who campaigns for “racial equality”. It is only the White, Western thinker who is their ally. Nowhere else on the planet is there a belief in “racial equality”. Just look: from Japan to China to Dubai from Buenos Aires to Caracas. Is a racial caste system in place that favors one race? Yes. Only in Europe and North America is “racial equity” seriously considered.
When you carelessly dilute the culture of the White, Western liberal man you also dilute the only culture on the planet who is even working on “racial equality and equity”.
2) Economics: this is all pretty obvious, but somehow no one talks about it.
a) more competition for entry level housing due to the influx of migrants negatively affects Black Americans.
b) more competition for unskilled, and semi-skilled labor holds down wages and once a critical mass of an immigrant country gets to control a sector, Blacks are quickly excluded (and business then takes place in Spanish, further excluding American Blacks). This can be seen in the construction and restaurant/hospitality industry.
Who sold Black Americans on the scam that “non White migration” is good for them? Do they not realize that these Latino migrants they call “not White” think of themselves as “white” or “closer to white”, and will just turn around and exclude them, with not one iota of “White Guilt”….?
1. In Europe "racial equity and equality" is written into laws, in part as a result of a history in which white Europeans saw themselves as better and therefore aa being allowed to plunder the developing world. (Oh wait, we are still doing that.) So when you talk about carelessly diluting the culture of the "white western liberal man", that sounds scary to me. Reminds me of that famous "white man's burden".
2. This is one of the issues prof. Matloff sees: Black people pushed out of entry/mid-level jobs by the influx of migrants, many illegal. I have saw, in Central Valley CA, people not being hired for a job because they did not speak Hispanic, and some fired because of it.
However according to the CATO institute: FACT: Immigrants don’t take American jobs, lower wages, or push the poor out of the labor market. And “Immigrants increase economic inequality.” FACT: Maybe. The evidence on how immigration affects economic inequality in the United States is mixed — some research finds relatively small effects, and some finds substantial ones. The standard of living is much more important than is the income distribution.
Housing, or better the shortage of, is indeed an issue that is worry-some. Tens of thousands of people are coming in and will need housing. We have already in (and around) many cities rows of tents with people "living" in them. These people need proper housing.
In short: the jury is still out on all of this. More research should be done.
It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of sex and race in America, and pretty sure it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race and sex in other Western countries like Canada and Australia. Countries in Latin America have passed laws again this as well. Obviously, enforcement varies from country to country
The European rules are stronger, freedom of speech (e.g. about race) is hampered there by the many exclusions.
Actually, the United States has multiple agencies at the federal and state level that investigate allegations of racism, and proven allegations go to court to be ruled again. I know this system well because I have filed hundreds of complaints for all sorts of discrimination, mainly sex, sexual orientation, and race. Title V outlaws racial discrimination. Title VI outlaws discrimination based on race, religion, or nationality in federally funded programs. Title VII outlaws discrimination based on race, sex, religion, and sexual orientation in employment. Title IX outlaws sex discrimination in federally funded educational institutions. Various state laws also apply and the US has 50 states.
Meaning one cannot legally have organizations or programs for women, for lgbtq, or race based programs. Education and employment can only be awarded on the basis of individual merit, and help like social services can only be based on individual need. Sex, race, and sexual orientation cannot be factors.
What you describe is completely different. In the US you are not allowed to do certain things, in Europe you are not allowed to think about these things.
If you are so prone to sue could you please stop reacting to my postings ?
There's also another reason why I mentioned my experience filing lawsuits. It is an outright LIE than anyone Black is prevented from going to medical or any other school in the United States. Anyone would know that's illegal discrimination. However, one must score well on the MCATS and have a high GPA and they won't get accepted. A lot of poor Americans don't prioritize academics among their children. But for those that do RAISE their children will and take RESPONSIBILITY for the education of their children, of course medical school or any other school is possible.
Why stop reacting to your postings? You do want to know how people really change or solve things in the United States, don't you? Simply talking does absolutely nothing because no one will care, for starters.
There are not stronger. I have lived in Europe too. Freedom of speech is very important. Otherwise someone can cry racism just to stifle a point that they may not like, without regards to whether it is true or not.
What you describe is exactly what happens in Europe, for about fifty years now - people crying "racist" thus making impossible much needed discussion about employment, housing, healthcare, crime. How long did you live in Europe and in what kind of a position ? Maybe your skin color has protected you from limitations on what you were allowed to say. The lack of discourse is one of the reasons so many right-wing parties are now growing in some European countries.
PhD student in Europe. And not everything is about a person's skin color. I was able to get two European citizens via Sephardic heritage, and no I am not white. My PhD program also helped.
Now here is where I make fun of people. You seem to think of both Black Americans and Latin Americans as the borg. The borg are cyborgs from Star Trek, with one mind split between many different bodies. As in you don't seem to see either Black people or Latin Americans as individuals.
Example, there are different opinions among Black people on immigration. Very different. Latin Americans have different opinions on Black people, plus conditions re: Black people are different from country to country.
Oh please anyone who had spent a number of years on this Earth knows that people have independent thought (except those right-wing). Even my pet-rats had different ideas on what was good food, how to decorate their house, which music they liked to listen to, etc.
You mean except left wing. You're constantly categorizing Americans and others by race, as if people in the same race somehow all like each other or care about each other or have the same interests.
I knew you were gonna say that ! We call it "kicking in an open door."
I am not categorizing USers by race, I might be an ejit (I keep answering) but I am not stupid. I have met too many different human beings in my life to know that race is a minor detail in what makes a person.
I never heard Prez Trump say "dark is bad". He questioned the Visa Lottery and the policy of family reunion (at absurdum) currently in place, leaving a small number of visas for the high level immigrants this country needs to stay competitive in science & technology.
Glenn, on the matter of immigration I think our focus has been distracted by the problem of Hispanics crossing the Southern border in large numbers. I agree with Amy Wax that even elite immigration from South Asia and East Asia may have had unintended consequences that have been detrimental to our social fabric.
Asian American immigration skyrocketed after the Immigration Act of 1965, but even prior to 1990-2000 Asian American dominance in academics wasn’t nearly as disproportionate as it is now. A few years back Thomas Jefferson High School reached peaked Asian when its incoming class was 73% Asian and 18% white. These percentages were basically reversed around 1990. In various parts of the country elite immigration from South Asia and East Asia over the past 2-3 decades have shifted demographics at many of the elite high schools around the country. In NYC the former chancellor of education Richard Carranza frequently clashed with the Chinese American community over disproportionate representation of Asian Americans at schools like Stuyvesant. NYC does appear to be an outlier in that the Asian American community there actually has the highest poverty rate but regardless, the general trend still stands.
Asian Americans make up a fair share of the 6-member International Mathematics Olympiad team for the United States these days, but prior to the early 1990s there weren’t nearly so many Asian Americans on these teams and Jewish Americans were far more prevalent. Likewise Asian American SAT scores have continued to increase at rates far exceeding the increase in SAT scores for other ethnic groups over the past decade or so. I would also point out that in tech where I work, companies frequently present diversity statistics showing that at many elite companies Asian Americans might make up between 20-50% of workers in technical roles. This is misleading because a non-trivial percentage of those Asian Americans aren’t citizens or permanent residents and are on a work visa of some kind. Thus, the pool of Asian workers at these companies is being drawn from a much larger global population rather than the 6% of the general American population that’s of Asian descent.
I point this out because we seem to be obsessed with group disparities in America especially post-George Floyd. Yet few people seem to be able to think rationally about how even elite immigration might be detrimental as far as maintaining our social cohesion and exacerbating the group disparities that persist in this country. Opportunities for native born Americans of all races would surely increase if we weren’t so focused on attracting as many of the best and brightest from around the world.
It does seem like increasing geopolitical tension might resolve the elite immigration problem with respect to China over the coming years but I feel like the general point still stands. You can’t just open the floodgates to the entire world and tell it to send over its best and brightest and then lament the fact that Black and Hispanic Americans seem to be underperforming relative to Asian and white Americans as a result.
After 2000, admitting foreign students at US colleges/universities grew into a 35 Billion industry. They significant higher pay the out-of-state fee. As most educational institutes are not-for-profi they are allowed to keep the whole amount.
After 1995 employers discovered the just started H-1B program and (mis)used it to bring large numbers of tech workers into the US. That was not how the program was meant - originally it included chiroprators, ethnic restaurant chefs. But times were good and anything ending in .com was a way to earn a lot of money. The number of workers allowed in was revised upward several times, considerably. Politicians always need money for their war-chest so no protests there. Originally the max period a worker could be here was six years. But soon after 2000 it became possible for an employer to request indefinite extensions. By now a few Million non-immigrant workers from India (and China) - and wives/kids - are waiting for their Green Card, as it takes up to 20 years before a visa# becomes available: about 70,000 visas are yearly issued to workers. So much for the idea "let's first see what we have".
Re. Immigrants from India. US immigrations (USCIS) has a more than twelve year back-log in processing immigration applications from non-immigrant Indian workers. This caused by the per county limit. Why so many immigrants from India ? Because many co.'s figured out that well-educated foreign people imported, could be hired-out in the US for significant money. Their number went up around 2000 when the employers thanks to their Y2K-scam managed to bring in about three times as many foreign workers as was previously allowed under the so-called H-1B cap.
So you're saying let's try to work with what we have here before admitting large numbers of educated elites. Sounds reasonable, but is our current educational system up to teaching American born kids what they really need, instead of idealogy?
As far as unlimited immigration, Black Americans will do exactly what they are told to by the Democratic Party or they will be instantly replaced, demononized, and driven from power.
Actually no. I'm Black. Though I voted Republican this election, most elections I don't vote. Democrats do not tell me what to do. Black Americans are also not the borg from Star Trek. Here are my true thoughts on the matter. https://justingaffneysamuels.substack.com/p/stop-attacking-white-men-and-putting?sd=pf
To me, it's all about fairness. My friends from India come here, after taking out loans to pay for their college degree in India, waiting in line to get a H1B visa, then have to wait 18 years (current wait time) before they can get the green card. During those 18 years, their life is no joke. They are at the mercy of their employer, they are employed in states like CA where rents are high and saving is harder, they have to send money back home to support their parents, they send their kids to public school, yet don't have a say in local elections and important issues such as school choice, so they are doomed to a half-life for about 2 decades. During this time, they are also careful to dot every i and cross every t, and not stray an inch outside of the Law, lest it jeopardize their legal status. They do all of this for the sake of eventual American citizenship. Compare these people with the guy who walks in across the border, is welcomed with open arms, gets legal status and a path to 'fast-track' citizenship. He can even commit crimes without harming his legal status as long as it's not too egregious. How is this fair?
Talking about fairness and immigration. How is it fair that children illegally brought in can apply for DACA but that non-US born children of legal non-immigrants are kicked out once they turn 21 (age out). Their legal status is the problem ! Also, E-visa holders cannot apply for a Green Card so eventually they have to leave, after a lifetime of giving it all.
Fairness is not that people in India pay (with loaned money) for a degree and then can expect to be issued an H-1B to come to work in the US. It is the responsibility of Indians to make India, a better, more prosperous, country. Obeying the law is a requirement every person in the US has to meet, not just H-1B's aspiring to get a Green Card.
That said, I hear you. We immigrated on H-1B/H-4 in 1994 and basically my life went to hell. "For the male a job, for the woman, nothing". So yes I too see with amazement - for years already - how illegal immigrants are either tolerated/welcomed. Although thanks to Prez Clinton they have to travel through a large area of desert, or swim the Rio Grande and navigate razored barbed wire, often jeopardizing their life. I think you paint the position of illegal immigrant too rosy, but indeed those who manage to become asylum seekers can get to work a few months later. H-4's have wait about six years before they can get to work, IF an immigrant procedure is started for the husband - and often the employer is unwilling to do this. Six years is a large gap on the resume and for many businesses that makes someone unemployable.
Currently there is a shortage of workers, so why are H-4's/O-3's not allowed to work ? I keep asking this, experts, economists, politicians, but no one gives an answer.
Back to immigration. An issue hardly acknowledged: changing demographics make that lower level workers are now asked to speak Hispanic. If they cannot, they will not get the job or will lose their job.
The experts are divided in two camps. Prof Petri insists immigration does not cause workers to lose jobs, does not bring/hold down wages. Prof. Borjas en prof. Matloff found the opposite.