If the GOP would respect nature's laws (Trump ran on an anti-EPA platform) and Democrats would respect criminal laws (vs. race-based crime denial), the choice of who to support would become more nuanced.
Glenn wrote: "how much more thought, how much more deliberation is required"...? That is a very right wing thing to say. In contrast, the left would probably say things are subtle and need analysis. Thinking things are simple, not subtle is characteristically on the political and cultural "right." /// So having read a little more: This is quite a good article, as it shows two different and contrasting (comparable) persons. These are two attitudes, both of which must be considered by thoughtul persons . And aren't persons of today expected to be more, not less, thoughtful? I have seen what goes on with these police. I favor the McWhorter view!
A disembodied voice from a year ago, Mr Van Winkle. I’ve scrolled but can’t find my comment you are tardily responding to so, I’ll be flying blind.
The Southern Strategy as I now know may not have been a comprehensive singular wedge attempt to take advantage of ever increasing civil rights animus. The zeitgeist of the era and perceptions took on a life of its own and made for great political fodder for both parties. This so called “strategy” may not have been consciously intentional but it did inform or hinder Nixon’s politics in the South. I give you credit for my new found enlightenment on the subject.
As for black Democratic control of large urban areas, I’m not sure of your point vis a vis a Southeastern Strategy other than Blacks, with obvious good reasons, came to believe that the Republicans were not their preferred benefactors.
Political corruption and ineptitude in dysfunctional large inner city demographics is a unique complex sociological problem that begs a more sophisticated formula than Reps good, Dems bad.
For numerous reasons I didn’t and don’t consider the answer to any of America’s woes, Trump. He only adds to them.
What about the rolling back of press freedoms Glenn? Chipping away at some pretty fundamental liberties seems to be a stacked on the Republican side of the agenda. Sure, we democrats may be a little too self-obsessed with the less meaningful parts of the equity and POC rights, but I'd rather err there for now vs. the clear race-based power grabs on the other side are. I think a good portion, if not majority of left-leaning folks are fighting for basic fairness at the local and institutional level and are not anarchists or self-serving whiners.
I am a Democratic who lives in Seattle, Washington. Over the past few years I have become very disillusioned with the Democrat’s agenda and way of governing in our state and nationally. The Pandemic response, especially around education, and the riots of 2020 in Seattle and Portland were the final straw, I was ready to look at Republicans.
And what do you have to offer? People like Donald Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Dr. oz and Herschel Walker. There aren’t any reasonable, moderate Republicans in your party because most Republicans stood silent while Trump and his sycophants destroyed them, derided them and belittled them. You stood silent because you were afraid of incurring the wrath of Trump, so now your party is bereft of reasonable people with reasonable ideas.
And now you are incredulous towards John and other Democrats like myself?In Washington State the person running against the Democratic incumbent in my district said he most aligned with MTG and her faction and still thought the election was stolen from Trump. So my vote for the Democratic was not so much really about her but to stop another “crazy” from going to Washington D.C.
When moderate, reasonable Republicans with good ideas around immigration, crime, education and economics are once again a part of the Republican Party I will vote for them, but first the current Republican Party needs to stop crying about Democrats and bending over for Trump and start putting forth people that aren’t fucking crazy and actually have intelligent, reasonable and thoughtful ideas about how to govern this country.
Am actually happy the respective wins were so close. We, the people, have not had representation for many years. This means neither side can railroad the country into the extreme desires of either side. They literally now have to debate and actually REPRESENT the people! And, let’s please stop making everythying about Trump! He was the biggest chancre sore we’ve ever had, and I’m conservative-leaning Constitutionalist. We don’t have anything going that suits me from today’s parties.
The fact that I value the right to keep and bear arms has rendered me forced to vote R almost exclusively. There are many like me, I have little doubt. Though I value environmental protections, the rolling back the War on Drugs, and at least the posture of not being in the pocket of the uber wealthy, I cannot vote for someone who wishes to disarm the people; it's an absolute non-starter.
Glenn can you get John to do his homework before you have these discussions with him. He comes across as a low information voter just regurgitating his party's talking points. I find nothing thoughtful about his comments. Before John dismisses me as a red rural not thinker I am an registered independent and mathematician with a little training in critical thinking.
" I don't wanna have to explain why I'm voting for the party of Trump, even to myself."
For a man who is supposedly a deep thinker, that is an incredibly shallow comment. Crime, the border, and the rest have nothing to do with Donald Trump. The carnage sweeping through the nation's inner cities, the teachers' unions given primacy over the education of students, and our headlong plunge into WWIII are happening while Orange McBadman holds no office. But that's okay. Addictions can often blind people to reality and perpetual partisanship is an addiction.
We've done this election dance for a long time. If we are debating products, we tend to look at performance - which one works better or which one is the better value. But that goes out the window with party where emotion and habit color everything. "I've always voted Dem." And you have always gotten a particular set of results, especially in large cities. We even have a word for doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting different results.
I guess people have to see the results for themselves. They have to be confronted personally by the consequences they made possible, which is not a pleasant thought as it implies some negative outcome occurring. I don't want to see that but when persuasion and evidence do not work, there is not very left but for the partisan addict to hit his/her version of rock bottom. Only then will introspection occur, followed by possible change.
The modern Republican Party isn’t much of a choice. Their exist solely to give voters the false belief that they have a choice. They want unlimited war, unlimited illegal immigration, uncontrolled ballot harvesting and ballot box stuffing, etc just like the DNC. Both parties exist to serve the same corporate and foreign interests, and to keep the establishment in power. Everything they do benefits China and corporate donors. Need proof? Watch Mike Pence interview with David Muir. A Hollywood production where Pence endorses the fantasy narrative promoted by Liz Cheney and the DNC. There is ample evidence it is pure fantasy (for anyone interested) but fantasy is better than reality when it results in book deals and the media fawning over you. The media exists to attack anyone who resists the fake two-party system. The choice is not between parties, it is between reality or fantasy. If you choose reality you will be relentlessly attacked. If you choose fantasy you will be celebrated but our country will be destroyed.
I'd vote if either party was antiwar, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was against Citizens United and corporate cash, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for dismantling the entire surveillance state, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for banning Big Tech from gathering and profiting off of the sale of our personal data, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for repealing the changes to bankruptcy laws that make it nearly impossible for normal people to discharge their debts, including student loans, and make a fresh start, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was committed to preventing Wall Street from buying up single family homes and multi-family apartments, creating artificially high prices for rent, leading to increased homelessness, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for breaking up the media monopoly, and restoring the "fairness doctrine" but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for banning Big Pharma from TV advertising and building a solid wall between Big Pharma and the FDA/CDC, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for holding Big Pharma directly responsible for injuries caused by their "vaccines", but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for banning voting machines with codes controlled by private corporations, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for banning politicians from profiting from their office, not only during their term but after their term, but they aren't.
It's not enough for the Dems to be "not Trump".
It's not enough for the Reps to be "not woke".
The parties must give me something to vote FOR, or they're just two sides of the same coin, serving the same corporate masters, while merely paying lip service to "the people" they supposedly represent.
That’s a cute, tidy, little explanation for him admittedly voting against his own declared interests ‘cause I’ve been a Democrat my whole life’.
His gutless fealty to his party DESPITE their policies repeatedly posing an existential threat to the life of him, his family and America writ large is shameful and exactly why our country is fucked 6 ways to Sunday!
Perhaps you didn’t catch the burial he’s received here on this very topic….
I grew up in VA in the 60's and our history texts (which you can find online) said that slaves were treated well and were satisfied with their lot! In 2016, I became interested in black history which I had never learned after the book "Hidden Figures" by Margot Lee Shetterly came out because my parents both worked at NACA (later NASA), Langley Field in the 40s. My father spent his career there and my mother started as a "Computer" in 1939 like the black women in the book, but I had NEVER heard of a separate group of black "Computers." My parents are gone, so I can't ask them. I started carefully observing how racism manifested itself in the Trump administration. and reading right wing sites such as Fox to understand what the right thinks. I read an article about the Obamas on "Blaze" and was HORRIFIED to see all the ugly racist comments about them, and I started copying them and keeping them in a file. Then I discovered that most articles about blacks are followed by comments comments comparing them to subhuman primates and suggesting they return to Africa. I continued copying some of them in my file so I have 6 years worth now. Fox LOVES to rile up their readers by printing numerous articles about crimes committed by blacks complete with mug shots or surveillance video. Articles about white criminals are rare and many Fox readers don't believe that ANY crimes are committed by whites, and of course, these stories don't draw readers and make money. I have always been mystified by the right claiming that Democrats are racists (such as Loury's comment: "if they [Democrats] get serious about tamping down racial demagoguery in their party") when it seems to me that OLD FASHIONED, OVERT RACISM has a home on the right!
Republicans are the lunatics, really?? That is what Hillary Clinton would say. Its the direct opposite of the truth. They are the ones promoting common sense policies. The Left is constantly destroying cities. They're like locusts. How can John not see this?
Since the passage of the XV Amendment, the Black community has debated whether to give their loyalty to one party or to have the political parties compete for their votes. The latter has usually been a minority position. John's position is the former. Even though he knows the Democrats generally ignore the real needs of the Black community, he continues to favor hope over experience. Glenn's support for Republicans is a variant of the later. Its strategic: he hopes that Republicans will do more the compete for the Black vote by treating them as true equals, not dependents. So Republicans, reach out to the Black community and listen to their pleas and their ideas for for real reform and progress. We are all Americans. Glenn is waiting and John is persuadable.
If the GOP would respect nature's laws (Trump ran on an anti-EPA platform) and Democrats would respect criminal laws (vs. race-based crime denial), the choice of who to support would become more nuanced.
Glenn wrote: "how much more thought, how much more deliberation is required"...? That is a very right wing thing to say. In contrast, the left would probably say things are subtle and need analysis. Thinking things are simple, not subtle is characteristically on the political and cultural "right." /// So having read a little more: This is quite a good article, as it shows two different and contrasting (comparable) persons. These are two attitudes, both of which must be considered by thoughtul persons . And aren't persons of today expected to be more, not less, thoughtful? I have seen what goes on with these police. I favor the McWhorter view!
A disembodied voice from a year ago, Mr Van Winkle. I’ve scrolled but can’t find my comment you are tardily responding to so, I’ll be flying blind.
The Southern Strategy as I now know may not have been a comprehensive singular wedge attempt to take advantage of ever increasing civil rights animus. The zeitgeist of the era and perceptions took on a life of its own and made for great political fodder for both parties. This so called “strategy” may not have been consciously intentional but it did inform or hinder Nixon’s politics in the South. I give you credit for my new found enlightenment on the subject.
As for black Democratic control of large urban areas, I’m not sure of your point vis a vis a Southeastern Strategy other than Blacks, with obvious good reasons, came to believe that the Republicans were not their preferred benefactors.
Political corruption and ineptitude in dysfunctional large inner city demographics is a unique complex sociological problem that begs a more sophisticated formula than Reps good, Dems bad.
For numerous reasons I didn’t and don’t consider the answer to any of America’s woes, Trump. He only adds to them.
What about the rolling back of press freedoms Glenn? Chipping away at some pretty fundamental liberties seems to be a stacked on the Republican side of the agenda. Sure, we democrats may be a little too self-obsessed with the less meaningful parts of the equity and POC rights, but I'd rather err there for now vs. the clear race-based power grabs on the other side are. I think a good portion, if not majority of left-leaning folks are fighting for basic fairness at the local and institutional level and are not anarchists or self-serving whiners.
MDS
I am a Democratic who lives in Seattle, Washington. Over the past few years I have become very disillusioned with the Democrat’s agenda and way of governing in our state and nationally. The Pandemic response, especially around education, and the riots of 2020 in Seattle and Portland were the final straw, I was ready to look at Republicans.
And what do you have to offer? People like Donald Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Dr. oz and Herschel Walker. There aren’t any reasonable, moderate Republicans in your party because most Republicans stood silent while Trump and his sycophants destroyed them, derided them and belittled them. You stood silent because you were afraid of incurring the wrath of Trump, so now your party is bereft of reasonable people with reasonable ideas.
And now you are incredulous towards John and other Democrats like myself?In Washington State the person running against the Democratic incumbent in my district said he most aligned with MTG and her faction and still thought the election was stolen from Trump. So my vote for the Democratic was not so much really about her but to stop another “crazy” from going to Washington D.C.
When moderate, reasonable Republicans with good ideas around immigration, crime, education and economics are once again a part of the Republican Party I will vote for them, but first the current Republican Party needs to stop crying about Democrats and bending over for Trump and start putting forth people that aren’t fucking crazy and actually have intelligent, reasonable and thoughtful ideas about how to govern this country.
Am actually happy the respective wins were so close. We, the people, have not had representation for many years. This means neither side can railroad the country into the extreme desires of either side. They literally now have to debate and actually REPRESENT the people! And, let’s please stop making everythying about Trump! He was the biggest chancre sore we’ve ever had, and I’m conservative-leaning Constitutionalist. We don’t have anything going that suits me from today’s parties.
The fact that I value the right to keep and bear arms has rendered me forced to vote R almost exclusively. There are many like me, I have little doubt. Though I value environmental protections, the rolling back the War on Drugs, and at least the posture of not being in the pocket of the uber wealthy, I cannot vote for someone who wishes to disarm the people; it's an absolute non-starter.
Glenn can you get John to do his homework before you have these discussions with him. He comes across as a low information voter just regurgitating his party's talking points. I find nothing thoughtful about his comments. Before John dismisses me as a red rural not thinker I am an registered independent and mathematician with a little training in critical thinking.
" I don't wanna have to explain why I'm voting for the party of Trump, even to myself."
For a man who is supposedly a deep thinker, that is an incredibly shallow comment. Crime, the border, and the rest have nothing to do with Donald Trump. The carnage sweeping through the nation's inner cities, the teachers' unions given primacy over the education of students, and our headlong plunge into WWIII are happening while Orange McBadman holds no office. But that's okay. Addictions can often blind people to reality and perpetual partisanship is an addiction.
We've done this election dance for a long time. If we are debating products, we tend to look at performance - which one works better or which one is the better value. But that goes out the window with party where emotion and habit color everything. "I've always voted Dem." And you have always gotten a particular set of results, especially in large cities. We even have a word for doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting different results.
I guess people have to see the results for themselves. They have to be confronted personally by the consequences they made possible, which is not a pleasant thought as it implies some negative outcome occurring. I don't want to see that but when persuasion and evidence do not work, there is not very left but for the partisan addict to hit his/her version of rock bottom. Only then will introspection occur, followed by possible change.
The modern Republican Party isn’t much of a choice. Their exist solely to give voters the false belief that they have a choice. They want unlimited war, unlimited illegal immigration, uncontrolled ballot harvesting and ballot box stuffing, etc just like the DNC. Both parties exist to serve the same corporate and foreign interests, and to keep the establishment in power. Everything they do benefits China and corporate donors. Need proof? Watch Mike Pence interview with David Muir. A Hollywood production where Pence endorses the fantasy narrative promoted by Liz Cheney and the DNC. There is ample evidence it is pure fantasy (for anyone interested) but fantasy is better than reality when it results in book deals and the media fawning over you. The media exists to attack anyone who resists the fake two-party system. The choice is not between parties, it is between reality or fantasy. If you choose reality you will be relentlessly attacked. If you choose fantasy you will be celebrated but our country will be destroyed.
Not a single word in your conversation between the two of you about immigration. You still don't get it.
I'd vote if either party was antiwar, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was against Citizens United and corporate cash, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for dismantling the entire surveillance state, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for banning Big Tech from gathering and profiting off of the sale of our personal data, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for repealing the changes to bankruptcy laws that make it nearly impossible for normal people to discharge their debts, including student loans, and make a fresh start, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was committed to preventing Wall Street from buying up single family homes and multi-family apartments, creating artificially high prices for rent, leading to increased homelessness, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for breaking up the media monopoly, and restoring the "fairness doctrine" but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for banning Big Pharma from TV advertising and building a solid wall between Big Pharma and the FDA/CDC, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for holding Big Pharma directly responsible for injuries caused by their "vaccines", but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for banning voting machines with codes controlled by private corporations, but they aren't.
I'd vote if either party was for banning politicians from profiting from their office, not only during their term but after their term, but they aren't.
It's not enough for the Dems to be "not Trump".
It's not enough for the Reps to be "not woke".
The parties must give me something to vote FOR, or they're just two sides of the same coin, serving the same corporate masters, while merely paying lip service to "the people" they supposedly represent.
That’s a cute, tidy, little explanation for him admittedly voting against his own declared interests ‘cause I’ve been a Democrat my whole life’.
His gutless fealty to his party DESPITE their policies repeatedly posing an existential threat to the life of him, his family and America writ large is shameful and exactly why our country is fucked 6 ways to Sunday!
Perhaps you didn’t catch the burial he’s received here on this very topic….
See my further comment below….
I grew up in VA in the 60's and our history texts (which you can find online) said that slaves were treated well and were satisfied with their lot! In 2016, I became interested in black history which I had never learned after the book "Hidden Figures" by Margot Lee Shetterly came out because my parents both worked at NACA (later NASA), Langley Field in the 40s. My father spent his career there and my mother started as a "Computer" in 1939 like the black women in the book, but I had NEVER heard of a separate group of black "Computers." My parents are gone, so I can't ask them. I started carefully observing how racism manifested itself in the Trump administration. and reading right wing sites such as Fox to understand what the right thinks. I read an article about the Obamas on "Blaze" and was HORRIFIED to see all the ugly racist comments about them, and I started copying them and keeping them in a file. Then I discovered that most articles about blacks are followed by comments comments comparing them to subhuman primates and suggesting they return to Africa. I continued copying some of them in my file so I have 6 years worth now. Fox LOVES to rile up their readers by printing numerous articles about crimes committed by blacks complete with mug shots or surveillance video. Articles about white criminals are rare and many Fox readers don't believe that ANY crimes are committed by whites, and of course, these stories don't draw readers and make money. I have always been mystified by the right claiming that Democrats are racists (such as Loury's comment: "if they [Democrats] get serious about tamping down racial demagoguery in their party") when it seems to me that OLD FASHIONED, OVERT RACISM has a home on the right!
Republicans are the lunatics, really?? That is what Hillary Clinton would say. Its the direct opposite of the truth. They are the ones promoting common sense policies. The Left is constantly destroying cities. They're like locusts. How can John not see this?
Since the passage of the XV Amendment, the Black community has debated whether to give their loyalty to one party or to have the political parties compete for their votes. The latter has usually been a minority position. John's position is the former. Even though he knows the Democrats generally ignore the real needs of the Black community, he continues to favor hope over experience. Glenn's support for Republicans is a variant of the later. Its strategic: he hopes that Republicans will do more the compete for the Black vote by treating them as true equals, not dependents. So Republicans, reach out to the Black community and listen to their pleas and their ideas for for real reform and progress. We are all Americans. Glenn is waiting and John is persuadable.