We’re in the midst of tumultuous change in this country, and with it comes the requisite uncertainty and anxiety. In some ways, I’m changing along with the nation. My retirement from teaching and my split with the Manhattan Institute have me thinking about where to go next. I just got back from a visit to the University of Austin, which is trying to model some big changes of its own. In some sense, I’m not going anywhere. The Glenn Show will continue, as it always has. But there will be some changes around here, as well—more on that later this week. As John McWhorter notes in this episode, change may be inevitable, but it’s not always a good thing, as when social justice becomes the be-all end-all of higher education and scholarship.
The two of us discuss whether UATX’s amalgam of university, start-up, and great books course points the way to the future of higher ed in America. As John says, the social justice agenda is no longer tenable, at least when it overtakes every other imperative in the university. Clearly some attention should be paid to social progress, but how much? Speaking of progress, John was pleasantly surprised by his trip to the National Museum of African American History and Culture, which, he says, correctly balances the struggles of African Americans with our achievements and ascension, an idea embodied in the building’s very architecture. As he sees it, there’s no DEI agenda at work there, and we wonder whether Trump will leave it basically untouched, as John thinks it should be. Of course, Trump wasn’t the first critic of DEI. We’ve had plenty to say against it. But now that he is, to my mind, overreaching in his attempts uproot it, we ask whether we’re complicit.
This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.
0:00 Intro
1:25 The response to Glenn’s appearance on Tucker Carlson’s show
4:03 Are institutions like the University of Austin the future of higher ed?
11:31 Ground News ad
13:14 When social justice musicology came for John’s syllabus
17:42 What role should social justice play in academic study?
28:40 John’s trip to the National Museum of African American History and Culture
35:50 Will the museum survive Trump’s assault on DEI?
44:47 Are Glenn and John complicit in anti-DEI overreach?
55:30 The racial animus question in anti-DEI reform
Recorded on May 21, 2025
Links and Readings
Glenn’s recent appearance on Tucker Carlson’s show
The Chronicle of Higher Education’s interview with Glenn
Glenn’s forthcoming book, Self-Censorship
Glenn’s memoir, Late Admissions: Confessions of a Black Conservative
John’s conversation with actor Clifton Duncan
The BBC’s 1973 production of George Bernard Shaw’s Pygmalion, starring Lynn Redgrave and James Villiers
Khalil Gibran Muhammad’s book, The Condemnation of Blackness: Race, Crime, and the Making of Modern Urban America
Victor Herbert’s operetta, Babes in Toyland
John’s NYT piece on the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture
Glenn’s conversation with Brown University student Alex Shieh
Share this post