I always find it disappointing when Glenn and John discuss intelligence without taking into account the enormous body of research on this topic. Glenn in particular, as a social scientist, should know better. The potential explanations for the group mean differences in intelligence that they consider were ruled out decades ago by experts in the field. Do they not know this? Or are they being willfully blind here?

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Bravo to Glenn and John for debating the topic. To me, equality is about God making us all equal in spirit, and equity is about man made distribution of outcomes. And frankly I think all those that believe in equity should immediately give any wealth they have over the average US wealth to those below the average starting with least first. What is that you say? No one above the average wealth number believes in equity when it comes to giving up their own wealth. Inconceivable. In sum, nothing holds a person back from implementing equity personally because you can always find someone poorer to share what little or great wealth you have. What a bunch of hypocrites the Democrats are.

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Zeno again:

Has it occurred to anybody that black Americans resemble immigrants from elsewhere, in that they comfortably navigate U.S. culture in general, as part of it, yet navigate their own subculture as adroitly? It's the next best thing to being bilingual. I can't remember having seen them credited in a positive way for this ability to straddle two worlds simultaneously.

Another apparent cultural blind-spot that white Americans seem victims of is that U.S. blacks are the prime originators of much of our collective culture, no matter how little credit for it they receive from culture pontificators in general, including degreed sociologists. E,g, America's only contribution to world culture is jazz. Its syncopations and flatted notes form the foundation of our ONLY contribution to world culture, mainly embedded in the jazz idiom. Without it, could there have been a George Gershwin, or many of the other stars of Broadway songwriting?

Only the cognoscenti openly credit US blacks for this gift. It was the only indigenous music that our State Department sent abroad immediately after WWII, including tours by Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington and others, as part of cultural exchanges.

DURING WWII, the USIA (United States Information Agency, our propaganda arm that went head-to-head with Soviet propaganda efforts) sponsored such tours as the best way to reach Western nations culturally. The seeds for such cultural exchanges were first sown by all-black US Army bands serving in France under French commands, after white officers, from General Pershing on down, refused to lead black troops, who ended the war having won more French combat medals than all the combined white doughboiy outfits assigned "over there." But none of this appears in standard US History books. Why has credit for such achievements been withheld? The same is true for most American slang expressions, even though blacks comprise only some 14% of the total population, up from 10% during the past 50 years or so.

Come to think of it, presidents Clinton, W. Bush, Obama and Biden have all been seen on TV awarding medals for heroism to black civilian graybeards. Why never to white graybeards? Answer: No medals were withheld from whites; only from blacks. Why? White p;ique and dishonorable skullduggery that tried to prevent such honors from ever being given to blacks. Call it institutionalized racism, whiich most whites try to deny exists, when the proof is all around us in how we interact with one another. Racism is so ingrained that most whites are not aware of it even as they enforce it in small and large ways, both official and unofficial.

While federal legislation has slowly degraded the impact of institiutional racism, yet it abides. Deniers are sleepwalking if they can't sense it. It is understandable that they are embarrassed and ashamed to admit it, but it's the truth, demonstrable in myriad social and official interactions, day in, day out. While people of good will try to do a turnaround, as deep as it is buried inside us, culturally, eliminating it shall take generations, even if abetted by the coming predicted switch in demographics where and when we become a majority minority nation. Two recent examples: The water scandals in Flint, MI & in Jacksoin, MS, both cities being nearly 100% black, while the condition of their water was not under their own control. Name a white-dominant city where this has occurred.

As the nation awaits that day, pray that we all do our best to tamp down the social worst that is in us while elevating comity and community on whatever rung of the social ladder we occupy. Curiously, as of 2021, demographers noted that already one in four romantic pairings was comprised of racially disparate couples; mostly Asian-white. In terms of attitude, the more sophiticated, worldly new is leaving the old marooned in parochialism.

As the late Yogi Berra might say it, "The future lies ahead!" We CAN make it better. WILL we?

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Time 10:00; On travel ordeals- I love to see my family, but same problem of lengthy travel. Are there travel experts who can share any tricks?

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Time 15:00; John and Glenn discuss limitations of Equity policy in changing the hearts and minds of Americans because the “cure” and alleged “problem” are mis-matched. John hears from Equity supporters who are sincere. The societal concern that Equity tries to address is actually about behavior (individual and group), which requires analysis from a behavioral science perspective. PhD psychologists are supposed to be typing this comment instead of a lower level MPH. APA needs to expel propaganda infiltration and get to work. First a new director for APA.

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I did think John did great on Maher, given the limits of time—but honestly, I wasn’t sure if the distinction between equity and equality was clearly described to a viewer who has not been following the discussions on the Glenn show for years. It seemed to me that John talked about it and around it more than clearly describing it in a way I’d want someone in my life who is completely unfamiliar with the concepts to hear. But on the other hand, there is more and more overlap with Maher’s audience and the Glenn Show than ever, so it was fun to watch and cheer John on. Seeds get sown, sprout and grow and I am so grateful for John’s special role bridging liberals to this analysis. The message is getting through. Also, I thought the other guy made good points and was an interesting and excellent fellow guest. If you have his contact info, I hope that you will give him the benefit of the doubt that he is open to learning more deeply and send him a link to this interview. You both delve into the equity critique so brilliantly here. Thank you!

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I heard something recently that surprised me at the time, but made sense thinking back to my teaching career. The U.S. ethnic group that has the most advanced degrees (above a bachelors) per capita in this country is not an Asian group. The group with most advanced degrees per capita are Nigerian Americans. As I thought back to my teaching days some of my strongest Black students were Nigerian. I think the reason they did so well is because, much like Asian immigrant families, their families stress the importance of education.

Having taught at an inner city school, I believe academic success depends more on a student's home life than the quality of the school they attend. I believe the reason that so many public school teachers are opposed to expanding the number of charter schools is because it is the parents who care the most about education that apply to charter schools. If the most involved parents exit regular public schools it will be much harder to teach the children left behind. But public school teachers opposed to charter schools don't hesitate to pull their own kids out of NYC public schools. I think that it is wrong to force kids with less means to stay in failing schools. But as I said, I think much (but not all) of the failure of those schools are beyond the schools' control. But I am at a loss for a way to counteract a home where the importance of an education isn't stressed.

On the subject of opera, I have been to a few, but I am not really a fan. I did once attend an opera at Lehman College that was performed in English. Honestly, I didn't find it much easier to understand than an opera in Italian. I often have a hard time following the lyrics in pop songs, so it might just be about my aural deficiency and not opera itself.

I am looking forward to your conversation with the Stanford Law students. I was actually quite pleased that Dean Jenny Martinez not only refused to retract her apology to the judge, but she issued a detailed defense of the law school's free speech policy and disciplined the DEI Dean that hijacked the judge's talk. It's hard not to contrast her actions with that of the Yale Law School Dean.

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John and Glenn, this has annoyed me, over the years, to varying degrees since I’ve followed you around 2016, and you haven’t addressed it, so I gave up mentioning it. I know, “the scourge of being popular.” And I don’t mean that in a hostile way. Here it is: You have a blind spot in K12 public education because you don’t seem to know anyone who is a teacher, who is not a pundit or university lecturer. Kids and teachers are the puppets, the foot soldiers of the woke industrial complex, and Minneapolis - St. Paul is the Mecca for critical gender and race theories, as they have been deployed on the ground. Please know that thousands of teachers across the country have been investigated for language taboos and or insufficient training commitments, and some like me, have been fired, some notoriously, like me. I’ve seen Glenn at Northfield, MN’s St. Olaf College, and I understand you are returning to Minnesota. Please know that every private college here has a Director of Inclusive Excellence. David Everett of Hamline University, St. Paul, who fired a professor over her display of a 14th c painting of the Prophet’s face, Macalester College, St. Paul, which quickly covered paintings of women in an Iranian American artist’s exhibit with black curtains that resembled niqabs, are all prime Minnesota doings in the never ending jostle for peak wokeness. Edmund Santurri, St. Olaf, was fired after John McWhorter’s and Peter Singer’s appearances there. You should be apprised of this climate. I’m very glad you’re coming here, Glenn. I hope the flight and boring drive across farmland don’t take too much out of you, and I look forward to hearing anything you might have to say about my former profession as a teacher. I am one of your teacher followers. Theo Olson, St. Paul, MN.

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Re the media giant who can't find black people who want to write about anything other than race: I wonder if eventually they'll come under fire for having black writers who ONLY write about race - "Is that the ONLY thing you think black writers can produce?"

Also, it strikes me as supremely conformist and terribly unoriginal to only want to write about this single issue, however multi-varied that content might be (race/racism in politics, culture, government, social life, etc.) It's as though race and racism are the *sole definers* of black people. What, aren't they interested in anything else? Aren't any of these one-trick-pony content producers interested in/capable or writing about anything else? I mean, do they have an opinion on, like Arbour Day? (Hopefully not about how racist it probably is :) ) I write a lot about feminism and avoiding abuse but it's not the *only* thing I write about, and if someone asked me to write about something that was within my wheelhouse that had nothing to do with feminism or abuse I'd take it. My world is defined by far more than my place in it as a woman and co-existence with 'the patriarchy'.

I'm reminded of why I'm not terribly fond of Middle Eastern literature. I don't have a a lot of experience with it, I've always been engaged with anything I've read, but so often it's depressing, especially if it's written by women/for women, about how oppressive it is to live in the Middle East no matter who you are (one was about life under Gaddafi, oh, wasn't THAT a cheerful novel!)

Is it even possible for these people to conceive of a story, or an article, or a video, or something about black people, or not about black people, that isn't filtered through the race/racism lens? How sophisticated can anyone's take on anything be if they're incapable of seeing outside their narrow cultural view?

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Mar 22, 2023·edited Mar 22, 2023

John, you may be correct about your fellow traveler on the plane who just stared into space for seven hours, or you may be very very wrong.

He may have been someone who has such a rich inner world as to not need any external input, or had a crazy, insane trip and welcomed the silence of a cross Atlantic flight, or just simply enjoyed the silence.

He may have just lost someone close to him or something similar and was processing life. Just because he was not seeking external input into his brain doesn't mean he is disinterested.

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Loved John on Maher. Clever, intelligent and funny!

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So, I find a lot of disagreement is based on loose use of words and ill defined terms. I just want to point out when you criticize “equity” you really mean “racial equity”.

I started hearing the term “equity” some 12 years ago when my oldest started school. At the time it was primarily used to describe the attempts to address the educational impacts of poverty and learning disabilities. Under that equity, it is important to have all kids have access to a healthy breakfast and lunch. It also ensures that kids who are identified as having learning issues receive addition instruction or modifications (legally required in public schools through the use of IEPs and section 504, https://www.miusa.org/resource/tip-sheets/iep504plans/). Equity is supposed to mean every kid gets what they need, not necessarily the same. It is the same idea as is behind enrichment for gifted kids… so clearly, I would argue, there is a compelling case for equity in K-12 (especially public) education.

I agree with John that lowering standards is dumb. If we stick with K-12 education, there is a lot of brain development that goes on between 5 and 18, development that can (practically) really only happen then because if the way are brains are formed. Early intervention in conditions as diverse as dyslexia and autism can be significantly improved with consistent and early intervention.

I have seen for myself with my son who has dysgraphia (a hand writing disability that up to 20% of kids suffer from, especially boys) and ADHD (similar to dysgraphia in that it is more common than you think and more often in boys) how much scaffolding (that is externalizing executive functions until they are learned, which is required by all students to some extent) has made a huge difference over the 4 years since his diagnoses. I know in our case we were affluent enough to pay the $1000+ for testing and for me to allocate a whole lot of time and energy to helping him get caught up. He is also naturally super smart. It is unreasonable to think that everyone will have the advantages he has, though, every kid could certainly benefit from them. The goal of equity is/should be to get every kid, to extent possible, the resources through the schools, community, etc what they need to realize their potential.

It seems to me the move from that being “equity” to the new “equity” (rigging every metric to force results) is really just an acknowledgment of how much we have failed in K-12. Let’s do the Stephen Covey practice of “beginning with the end in mind” and spend the money on giving kids the foundation they need. Now statistically, this means we will spend significantly more money on the poor generally, probably disproportionately black and Hispanic. I don’t however think that the focus being on race is helpful to any of the individual children who, I very much believe, deserve better.

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Half of life is showing up. Recently, I was shocked to learn that in my mid-sized city's predominantly Black elementary schools, 50% of children don't even show up to school most days. In the my kids' public high school - and this is anectdotal - many Black kids show up to school but spend their days roaming and socializing in the hallways and not in the classroom. How do we expect group averages on test scores not to diverge. On that note, however, if as John implies that Blacks might have something to prove, well so do whites! Asians score best across all socio-economic levels! So much for "White Supremacy!"

As a side note, the idea that predominantly Black schools are underfunded is a myth. In our district in Florida, they get 30-40% MORE per student than predominantly "white" schools.

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Haven’t listened yet .. but heard this today.. “Equity is Jim Crow with a different name”

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Mar 21, 2023·edited Mar 22, 2023

Glenn or show producers. If you see this, please invite on Dr. Tyrone Howard, Professor of Education and Director of the Black Male Institute at UCLA. He would be an excellent guest with whom to discuss the Black education gap and related issues. Also I have known him and his family my entire life, and he is a great guy all around!

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Mar 20, 2023·edited Mar 24, 2023

I want to present a contrarian take on the topic of classical music. Personally, I’m tired of the notion that classical music is the pinnacle of the musical form. John describes it as majestic and I’m sure proponents will argue that classical music is in fact objectively more complex and superior compared to other forms of music.

I’d like to disagree. I don’t claim to be much of an expert on music, but I did play classical piano for 8 years back in the day. I enjoy listening to classical music and have even attended a few live classical concerts. I don’t believe classical music is inherently more highbrow or prestigious compared to contemporary musical forms and in my opinion the misguided notion that music by Beethoven, Mozart or Chopin is somehow superior is what led to our existential handwringing over the supposed lack of Blacks in classical music. It’s the same prestige-whoring which results in society agonizing over a supposed lack of racial diversity among the student body at Stuyvesant.

Music is ultimately meant to be performed and enjoyed. What matters is that a piece resonates with a specific individual at a particular moment in time. When I’m in a certain mood I might put on some Debussy but if I’m in a different frame of mind I might listen to Drake instead. Each state embodies an at-that-moment kind of sublimity.

For what it’s worth, the single most sublime musical composition in my opinion is Lil Wayne’s track Love Me. More so than any work by any classical composer like Mozart or Beethoven, Love Me embodies for me the pinnacle of musical genius. The Nobel committee awarded Bob Dylan the Literature Prize in 2016 for “having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition” and in the spirit of fairness and open-mindedness I sincerely hope that the committee will consider Wayne for the Literature prize as well. I say this with at most 10% tongue in cheek and with at least 90% complete seriousness.

I'm glad that John pushed back against the notion that there are too few Blacks in classical music. It’s not a competition. African Americans’ contributions to jazz are a monument of American culture and there’s no reason to believe that their putative underrepresentation in another domain of music constitutes a societal problem worth agonizing over.

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