With Trump attempting to make good on his campaign promises—tariffs, sweeping personnel changes within the federal bureaucracy, confirmation hearings for controversial cabinet picks, and so on—John and I are curious about what the elimination of DEI programs means for the race agenda. Well, “curious” is one way to put it. “Slightly nervous” is another. We both agree that sweeping away DEI excesses is a good thing, but DEI and anti-discrimination are not the same thing. The pendulum is swinging, but how far is it going to go?
We begin by talking about the DEI and anti-discrimination issue. I worry that the appetite for undoing progressive reforms will end up leaving troubled African American communities to languish. But what are we to do? John wonders aloud if the present state of affairs is the best we can do. There are good race-conscious beneficiaries of federal funding after all, like HBCUs. The most prestigious HBCU—Howard University—has got a new incoming faculty member: Ibram X. Kendi. I wouldn’t hire Kendi, but John and I discuss why his appointment might make sense for them. We then talk about John’s latest column, which is about Bella da Costa Greene, J.P. Morgan’s personal librarian, the first director of the Morgan Library, and a black woman who passed for white.
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1:10 Which race-conscious programs stay and which go?
11:05 Ground News ad
12:42 Glenn: I’m afraid some African Americans might get left behind
19:25 More programs won’t address the problems of “the underclass”
27:49 John: Maybe this is the best it can be
31:22 The great benefits of HBCUs
35:35 ACTA ad
37:48 Ibram X. Kendi decamps for Howard
44:49 Studying the African diaspora
51:35 The passing of Belle da Costa Greene
1:02:29 Is colorism within the black community still an issue?
Recorded February 2, 2025
Links and Readings
Robin DiAngelo’s book, White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism
Ibram X. Kendi’s book, How to Be an Antiracist
John’s NYT column, “Black and White Weren’t Always as Black-and-White as They Seem”
Hilton Als’s New Yorker piece, “The Hidden Story of J.P. Morgan’s Library”
Stephen and Abigail Thernstrom’s America in Black and White: One Nation Indivisible
Karen and Barbara Fields’s book, Racecraft: The Soul of Inequality in American Life
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