The “common sense” of the Woke Left sees so many issues, from the historical effects of redlining to the relationship between race and IQ, as matters that no longer require discussion. “Redlining is responsible for present-day racial wealth disparities, period. There is no relationship between race and IQ, period. End of discussion.”
Reading through it, I realized that there's already a name for the woke version of American history - it's the Black Legend of America. It's a shame that the term sounds like it's discounting the beliefs and views of black people :P But really, if you read through the defining characteristics of a "black legend" you'll find elements like:
-Accidentality of merit. Black legends tend to minimize the merits they cannot fully erase or hide, by either portraying them as "mere luck", opportunism or, at best, as isolated qualities.
-Obligatory moral actions. When a noble action by the subject cannot be denied, it is somehow presented as done out of self-interest or out of necessity.
-Natural moral inferiority and irredeemable character. The black legend has a final tone in which no hope of improvement is given, for the defects have been there from the beginning and cannot be overcome due to, usually, moral weakness.
And according to the description:
Narrations of black legends tend to include strong pathos, combined with a narrative that is easy to follow and emotionally loaded, created by:
-Detailed, gruesome and morbid descriptions of torture and violence, which in many cases does not seem to serve any practical purpose.
-Sexual elements, either extreme sexual depravity or repression or more often a combination of both.
-Ignorance. Lack of intellectual refinement or independence.
-Greed, materialism, accusations of disrespect for sacred, or very important institutions or moral rules.
-A theme, usually greed, cruelty, sadism or bigotry, that constructs a consistent character and remains stable through the legend, even if the specific "proofs" to support it may change or even become opposite to the initial ones.
-Simplicity of elements, often repetition of the same anecdotes or scenarios with different variations. Motivations for actions are often offered, but they are either one single motivation or two, negative, clear cut, and constant.
Sound familiar? This seems to be exactly what Professor Loury is pointing to when he talks about the "America red in tooth and claw" that some progressives seem to believe in. I guess it's comforting in a way that this is a universal phenomenon, although usually it's applied to a foreign enemy, not generated within the discourse of a nation itself.
I thought it was interesting Glenn said he liked the pushback John got on a podcast via John's characterization of followers of religion as irrational in that Glenn on a previous podcast gave John such pushback (prior to the books' publication) and I thought John's response was better to the pushback on the Glenn Show than the other podcast.
John (after Glenn skillfully prodded him) articulated a nuanced and less condescending take on religion. John acknowledged there is rigorous thinking in some religious circles and said he was specifically referring to irrational responses of "bad religion" - not all religious people as a whole. This is helpful because it is (1) true, (2) less needlessly condescending towards religious people and (3) religious people acknowledge there is "bad religion" in some form in all religious circles.
I wish that conversation had made it into the book. It didn't. I liked the book overall, and being familiar with John, I was able to look past the shallow comments on religion. On one hand I commend him for trying to not insult every religious person on earth, on the other hand his deep seated lack of respect towards religious ideas made it difficult for him to be honestly nuanced with his woke as religion comparison.
It's a good book, it would have been better if the conversation I mentioned influenced how things were framed in the book.
You wonderful and insightful gentlemen discussed the Jessi Smollett case and wondered how that young man was going to be able to live with the hoax and the lies for which he’s been found guilty by a jury of his peers. Apparently he’s standing by his account despite the outcome of the trial. My mind turns immediately to the tactical template upon which this type of strategem has been shown to be shockingly, dangerously, and quite effectively employed by one Don John Trump, and approximately 75 million of his dearest kool-aid drinking friends, who proclaim that the 2020 presidential election was stolen. It’s a stance that is having an unnerving degree of success, and one from which Trump will never
back down. I can’t know that Jessi makes the correlation between his case and Trump’s, but if enough 1619ers get behind Mr. Smollett, and a narrative to that effect gets a foothold in the news and on social media, it might generate a knock on effect in which this type of behavior overcomes traditional standards of morality and personal accountability.
The appraisal was $500,000 higher for the white person, rather than $50,000 as John said. This is anecdotal, and I would like to see a systematic study, but a $500,000 difference is a lot. I also don't believe that large differences in income and wealth should necessarily be attributed to differences in house prices. Different house prices applies to initial purchases as well as eventual sales.
Can you link to the study? I find that extremely difficult to believe on face value, and I want to confirm that they actually controlled for the major variables instead of making some kind of extrapolation. Even in my relatively very high priced mostly white area area, a black family owning a house would _never_ appraise for $500K less unless it were almost literally a burnt, flooded out shell.
Jon, I said that there should be a study, but there was no study that I am aware of. There was an individual case that was reported across the media. The same house was appraised for approximately $500,000 higher when a white person filled in as the owner, compared to what it was appraised for when the real Black owner was named as the owner.
It's easy to look up things such as this is you go to google.com. Just go to google and type house appraised for $500,000 more with white owner than with Black owner. You will get many articles to choose from.
The "settled" question paradigm infests numerous other areas in addition to race. Covid (origins, mandates, vaccine efficacy...) and Climate Change are two other subjects that suffer from the same tendencies. See Steve Koonin's book "Unsettled" on climate and Alina Chan and Matt Ridley's book "Viral" on Covid.
I have come to look forward to Mondays and these posts.
Informative and entertaining as usual. Glenn's argument on non-whites coming to America and building a life with their children who become tech geniuses was solid. That is why so many apologists lose their arguments for modern day disparities within black culture. It is a cultural problem.
I agree with your sentiment, but The Elect will simply dismiss what he's saying as "Model Minority" rhetoric. The nastier ones will even call those people "White Adjacent". I think Thomas Sowell decades ago gave a better articulation of these nuances, when he separated certain social pathologies that are zero sum and poverty-caused from those which demonstrably aren't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIl_FtuDSPs
51:24: Why did John smile when Glenn referred to the bathroom rape in Loudoun County? Does rape become funny if the rapist happens to be wearing a skirt?
I was glad to see John McWhorter’s smiling face in the Jeopardy! “answer”. But sadly none of the three professor contestants knew who he was from the photo or the clue. That probably says as much about our current professoriate as we need to know. So much of the right’s colloquy simply escapes notice in the liberal enclaves.
Late to the party on this, but I was reading random stuff on Wikipedia (don't judge me) and came across this concept:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend
Reading through it, I realized that there's already a name for the woke version of American history - it's the Black Legend of America. It's a shame that the term sounds like it's discounting the beliefs and views of black people :P But really, if you read through the defining characteristics of a "black legend" you'll find elements like:
-Accidentality of merit. Black legends tend to minimize the merits they cannot fully erase or hide, by either portraying them as "mere luck", opportunism or, at best, as isolated qualities.
-Obligatory moral actions. When a noble action by the subject cannot be denied, it is somehow presented as done out of self-interest or out of necessity.
-Natural moral inferiority and irredeemable character. The black legend has a final tone in which no hope of improvement is given, for the defects have been there from the beginning and cannot be overcome due to, usually, moral weakness.
And according to the description:
Narrations of black legends tend to include strong pathos, combined with a narrative that is easy to follow and emotionally loaded, created by:
-Detailed, gruesome and morbid descriptions of torture and violence, which in many cases does not seem to serve any practical purpose.
-Sexual elements, either extreme sexual depravity or repression or more often a combination of both.
-Ignorance. Lack of intellectual refinement or independence.
-Greed, materialism, accusations of disrespect for sacred, or very important institutions or moral rules.
-A theme, usually greed, cruelty, sadism or bigotry, that constructs a consistent character and remains stable through the legend, even if the specific "proofs" to support it may change or even become opposite to the initial ones.
-Simplicity of elements, often repetition of the same anecdotes or scenarios with different variations. Motivations for actions are often offered, but they are either one single motivation or two, negative, clear cut, and constant.
Sound familiar? This seems to be exactly what Professor Loury is pointing to when he talks about the "America red in tooth and claw" that some progressives seem to believe in. I guess it's comforting in a way that this is a universal phenomenon, although usually it's applied to a foreign enemy, not generated within the discourse of a nation itself.
Are you kidding me? Isn't Dyson the guy who tried to dismiss Jordan Peterson as an "angry white man?" He has a good heart?
I thought it was interesting Glenn said he liked the pushback John got on a podcast via John's characterization of followers of religion as irrational in that Glenn on a previous podcast gave John such pushback (prior to the books' publication) and I thought John's response was better to the pushback on the Glenn Show than the other podcast.
John (after Glenn skillfully prodded him) articulated a nuanced and less condescending take on religion. John acknowledged there is rigorous thinking in some religious circles and said he was specifically referring to irrational responses of "bad religion" - not all religious people as a whole. This is helpful because it is (1) true, (2) less needlessly condescending towards religious people and (3) religious people acknowledge there is "bad religion" in some form in all religious circles.
I wish that conversation had made it into the book. It didn't. I liked the book overall, and being familiar with John, I was able to look past the shallow comments on religion. On one hand I commend him for trying to not insult every religious person on earth, on the other hand his deep seated lack of respect towards religious ideas made it difficult for him to be honestly nuanced with his woke as religion comparison.
It's a good book, it would have been better if the conversation I mentioned influenced how things were framed in the book.
You wonderful and insightful gentlemen discussed the Jessi Smollett case and wondered how that young man was going to be able to live with the hoax and the lies for which he’s been found guilty by a jury of his peers. Apparently he’s standing by his account despite the outcome of the trial. My mind turns immediately to the tactical template upon which this type of strategem has been shown to be shockingly, dangerously, and quite effectively employed by one Don John Trump, and approximately 75 million of his dearest kool-aid drinking friends, who proclaim that the 2020 presidential election was stolen. It’s a stance that is having an unnerving degree of success, and one from which Trump will never
back down. I can’t know that Jessi makes the correlation between his case and Trump’s, but if enough 1619ers get behind Mr. Smollett, and a narrative to that effect gets a foothold in the news and on social media, it might generate a knock on effect in which this type of behavior overcomes traditional standards of morality and personal accountability.
THANKS OTRUMPA!!!!
The appraisal was $500,000 higher for the white person, rather than $50,000 as John said. This is anecdotal, and I would like to see a systematic study, but a $500,000 difference is a lot. I also don't believe that large differences in income and wealth should necessarily be attributed to differences in house prices. Different house prices applies to initial purchases as well as eventual sales.
Can you link to the study? I find that extremely difficult to believe on face value, and I want to confirm that they actually controlled for the major variables instead of making some kind of extrapolation. Even in my relatively very high priced mostly white area area, a black family owning a house would _never_ appraise for $500K less unless it were almost literally a burnt, flooded out shell.
Jon, I said that there should be a study, but there was no study that I am aware of. There was an individual case that was reported across the media. The same house was appraised for approximately $500,000 higher when a white person filled in as the owner, compared to what it was appraised for when the real Black owner was named as the owner.
https://abc7.com/black-homeowner-problems-sf-bay-area-housing-discrimination-minority-homeownership-anti-black-policy/10331076/
It's easy to look up things such as this is you go to google.com. Just go to google and type house appraised for $500,000 more with white owner than with Black owner. You will get many articles to choose from.
The "settled" question paradigm infests numerous other areas in addition to race. Covid (origins, mandates, vaccine efficacy...) and Climate Change are two other subjects that suffer from the same tendencies. See Steve Koonin's book "Unsettled" on climate and Alina Chan and Matt Ridley's book "Viral" on Covid.
I have come to look forward to Mondays and these posts.
Word.
Informative and entertaining as usual. Glenn's argument on non-whites coming to America and building a life with their children who become tech geniuses was solid. That is why so many apologists lose their arguments for modern day disparities within black culture. It is a cultural problem.
I agree with your sentiment, but The Elect will simply dismiss what he's saying as "Model Minority" rhetoric. The nastier ones will even call those people "White Adjacent". I think Thomas Sowell decades ago gave a better articulation of these nuances, when he separated certain social pathologies that are zero sum and poverty-caused from those which demonstrably aren't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIl_FtuDSPs
51:24: Why did John smile when Glenn referred to the bathroom rape in Loudoun County? Does rape become funny if the rapist happens to be wearing a skirt?
Enjoyed the discussion! A lot to think about! Thanks!
I was glad to see John McWhorter’s smiling face in the Jeopardy! “answer”. But sadly none of the three professor contestants knew who he was from the photo or the clue. That probably says as much about our current professoriate as we need to know. So much of the right’s colloquy simply escapes notice in the liberal enclaves.