For this week’s episode, I’m joined by NYU psychologist Jonathan Haidt, author of several books, including (with Greg Lukianoff) The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure and The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion
The last 6 minutes Jonathan describes the ideologies of the jacobins (left). Would have loved to hear Johnathan Haidt describe this in more detail. There appear to be several ideologies on the left.
Asia, Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean are home to about 400 million english speakers who speak english from early childhood and think in english. Often their english is better than their vernacular local language. They are also very much part of the English speaking world and are heavily influenced by American deep culture, including wokeness. [Many of them are very interested in Glenn Loury for example.]
Would have loved to hear Haidt's data comments on these societies. By GDP they are much larger than the [UK + Ireland + Canada + Australia + New Zealand combined.]
Like several other writers, I believe Dr. Haidt has an issue with unconscious biases. "Moderates are gone" in the Republican Party which makes them "Structurally Stupid" and the "Insane Party". There are a number of moderates within the Republican Party: Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, Tim Scott, Rand Paul (Libertarian), Phil Scott Gov of Vt, Charlie Baker Gov of Mass, Larry Hogan Gov of Maryland etc etc. His statement was without merit especially when considering the policies he agreed with and those he didn't.
What I found interesting is that he used the term "Structurally Stupid" for policies related to Covid (closing the schools), Transgenders and Race. Of course the items he noted as "Structurally Stupid" were Left leaning ideals, not Right. He also noted that Policing Policies, ending punishment for petty crimes (shoplifting) and "Equity" suppressing College Testing, were items he put down but are again Left in their origins. He notes McCarthyism / Religious Fervor in destroying the lives of those who disagree, suppressing debate (Yale) and tearing down all the institutions but correctly associated these movements with the Left; aren't those items "Structurally Stupid" and/or "Insane". I don't think he ever mentioned a Right policy as being Insane and collapsed when you pushed back re; borders, economics and personal responsibility instead commenting about your tone. As soon as somebody defaults to the messenger and not the message, they are lost.
Lastly, he stated that Social Liberals have higher IQs and tend to be smarter but also admitted that Social Conservatives are vastly under-represented within academia. Perhaps the smarter are just avoiding this Insanity.
Had to listen to his comments twice about the Republican being the “crazy party..” and then his definition of crazy. He’s spot on and it’s why the Republican Party is always on defense. They can’t catch up to the trash the democrats continue to throw and they are always two steps behind. Also, I’m a Donald trump supporter .. because I’m not having him over for dinner and he did great things for all Americans .. why Americans believe the president has to be homecoming king/queen is beyond me.. he's a business man first, not a snake in the grass Obama. However, he didn’t catch up to the Democrat’s manipulation either, but he did expose it. The Democrats are far more unified in their narcissistic, power, greedy, lying ways and have lots of devils in their corner .. which Jonathan named; corporations, print media, university, social media, mainstream TV and billionaires.
I appreciated the positive tone regarding religion. As a person who actively practices my religion it’s nice to not be at the wrong end of a negative comment. I’m wondering if rather than saying “right” and “wrong” for conclusions and policies regarding different social issues a better paradigm would be good-better-best. There are not a lot of one-size-fits-all policies or solutions for complicated social issues. As an example it might be good for children to have two involved parents but who aren’t in a relationship, better that they are committed to each other and their child/ren, and best that they are married and have a healthy, stable relationship. This type of thinking could be inclusive but also acknowledges that there are some circumstances that are typically more likely to have better outcomes.
This conversation was fantastic and made me think that Ronald Crutcher would be an interesting guest for a future episode to continue the conversation about viewpoint diversity on college campuses. Dr. Crutcher is a former university president, on the advisory board of Heterodox Academy, and an accomplished classical musician.
Jonathan still seems to believe that (broadly speaking) the left can be saved. But is there any indication that this is the case? The past two decades alone show a willingness to dismantle every institution social or otherwise that stands in the way of the progressive agenda. Even more, the development of the agenda is schizophrenic. Issues come and go from the public mind with seemingly little connection to the deep problems our society is facing. I fear these trends indicate that the left is too far gone and as an institution they need to be entirely replaced.
I'm glad that Glenn pushed back on the notion that the Republican Party has lost its' mind but the Democrat party is basically sane. Who's more moderate, McConnell or Schumer, Romney or Maisey Horono?
Looking forward to this coming out on Spotify in a day or two.it’s good to see Haidt back on the podcast circuit following his excellent recent essay… Babel.
How can a party that supports abortion-on-demand up until birth and that’s beholden to a lobby that seeks the destruction of sex-based rights, the normalization of sexual abuse and state-sanctioned rape be considered moderate? If the Democrats can still be considered moderate in spite of their rejecting first principles and institutionalizing human rights abuses, what does “moderate” mean?
Ok I just reached the point where Jonathan is saying the problem with entrance exams for colleges is that Chinese people come to America and work hard at the tests to get in. Why is that an issue? All kids should be working hard at those tests if they want to get into college. “Sacrificing your childhood”? Maybe to some extent but I’m sure those kids will thank their parents later.
Jonathan is a very smart guy and seems to be a real nice guy too. But I believe he is a little blinded by partisan politics. To me, the left are the party who have been captured by the extreme element of the party, and while they do have 2 moderates remaining who thankfully blocked their massive spending bill, I would not call them a moderate party at this time, at all. They have gone completely nuts.
As for the Republicans, sure there is a hard right element, but it’s the opposite of the what’s happening with the democrats; the moderate conservatives do have a voice. But what’s happening in the Republican Party is a battle between the traditional moderates who believe we should play fair and be gentlemen, and the new school who believe we need to play dirty like the democrats.
Personally I have always valued the rules, but at this moment in time I think the democrats have to be taught that it’s mutually assured destruction, and until they stop playing dirty, neither will we
The last 6 minutes Jonathan describes the ideologies of the jacobins (left). Would have loved to hear Johnathan Haidt describe this in more detail. There appear to be several ideologies on the left.
Asia, Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean are home to about 400 million english speakers who speak english from early childhood and think in english. Often their english is better than their vernacular local language. They are also very much part of the English speaking world and are heavily influenced by American deep culture, including wokeness. [Many of them are very interested in Glenn Loury for example.]
Would have loved to hear Haidt's data comments on these societies. By GDP they are much larger than the [UK + Ireland + Canada + Australia + New Zealand combined.]
Like several other writers, I believe Dr. Haidt has an issue with unconscious biases. "Moderates are gone" in the Republican Party which makes them "Structurally Stupid" and the "Insane Party". There are a number of moderates within the Republican Party: Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, Tim Scott, Rand Paul (Libertarian), Phil Scott Gov of Vt, Charlie Baker Gov of Mass, Larry Hogan Gov of Maryland etc etc. His statement was without merit especially when considering the policies he agreed with and those he didn't.
What I found interesting is that he used the term "Structurally Stupid" for policies related to Covid (closing the schools), Transgenders and Race. Of course the items he noted as "Structurally Stupid" were Left leaning ideals, not Right. He also noted that Policing Policies, ending punishment for petty crimes (shoplifting) and "Equity" suppressing College Testing, were items he put down but are again Left in their origins. He notes McCarthyism / Religious Fervor in destroying the lives of those who disagree, suppressing debate (Yale) and tearing down all the institutions but correctly associated these movements with the Left; aren't those items "Structurally Stupid" and/or "Insane". I don't think he ever mentioned a Right policy as being Insane and collapsed when you pushed back re; borders, economics and personal responsibility instead commenting about your tone. As soon as somebody defaults to the messenger and not the message, they are lost.
Lastly, he stated that Social Liberals have higher IQs and tend to be smarter but also admitted that Social Conservatives are vastly under-represented within academia. Perhaps the smarter are just avoiding this Insanity.
All the Best!
Had to listen to his comments twice about the Republican being the “crazy party..” and then his definition of crazy. He’s spot on and it’s why the Republican Party is always on defense. They can’t catch up to the trash the democrats continue to throw and they are always two steps behind. Also, I’m a Donald trump supporter .. because I’m not having him over for dinner and he did great things for all Americans .. why Americans believe the president has to be homecoming king/queen is beyond me.. he's a business man first, not a snake in the grass Obama. However, he didn’t catch up to the Democrat’s manipulation either, but he did expose it. The Democrats are far more unified in their narcissistic, power, greedy, lying ways and have lots of devils in their corner .. which Jonathan named; corporations, print media, university, social media, mainstream TV and billionaires.
I appreciated the positive tone regarding religion. As a person who actively practices my religion it’s nice to not be at the wrong end of a negative comment. I’m wondering if rather than saying “right” and “wrong” for conclusions and policies regarding different social issues a better paradigm would be good-better-best. There are not a lot of one-size-fits-all policies or solutions for complicated social issues. As an example it might be good for children to have two involved parents but who aren’t in a relationship, better that they are committed to each other and their child/ren, and best that they are married and have a healthy, stable relationship. This type of thinking could be inclusive but also acknowledges that there are some circumstances that are typically more likely to have better outcomes.
This conversation was fantastic and made me think that Ronald Crutcher would be an interesting guest for a future episode to continue the conversation about viewpoint diversity on college campuses. Dr. Crutcher is a former university president, on the advisory board of Heterodox Academy, and an accomplished classical musician.
Jonathan still seems to believe that (broadly speaking) the left can be saved. But is there any indication that this is the case? The past two decades alone show a willingness to dismantle every institution social or otherwise that stands in the way of the progressive agenda. Even more, the development of the agenda is schizophrenic. Issues come and go from the public mind with seemingly little connection to the deep problems our society is facing. I fear these trends indicate that the left is too far gone and as an institution they need to be entirely replaced.
Totally loved it/ for me Jonathan is an ideal sparring partner for Glenn ( apart from John, of course)
I'm glad that Glenn pushed back on the notion that the Republican Party has lost its' mind but the Democrat party is basically sane. Who's more moderate, McConnell or Schumer, Romney or Maisey Horono?
Looking forward to this coming out on Spotify in a day or two.it’s good to see Haidt back on the podcast circuit following his excellent recent essay… Babel.
Word. The discussion was too short!
If you look closely, there are certain moments you can literally see Haidt blowing Glenn's mind.
How can a party that supports abortion-on-demand up until birth and that’s beholden to a lobby that seeks the destruction of sex-based rights, the normalization of sexual abuse and state-sanctioned rape be considered moderate? If the Democrats can still be considered moderate in spite of their rejecting first principles and institutionalizing human rights abuses, what does “moderate” mean?
https://twitter.com/boysvswomen/status/1526357409429602305
Ok I just reached the point where Jonathan is saying the problem with entrance exams for colleges is that Chinese people come to America and work hard at the tests to get in. Why is that an issue? All kids should be working hard at those tests if they want to get into college. “Sacrificing your childhood”? Maybe to some extent but I’m sure those kids will thank their parents later.
Jonathan is a very smart guy and seems to be a real nice guy too. But I believe he is a little blinded by partisan politics. To me, the left are the party who have been captured by the extreme element of the party, and while they do have 2 moderates remaining who thankfully blocked their massive spending bill, I would not call them a moderate party at this time, at all. They have gone completely nuts.
As for the Republicans, sure there is a hard right element, but it’s the opposite of the what’s happening with the democrats; the moderate conservatives do have a voice. But what’s happening in the Republican Party is a battle between the traditional moderates who believe we should play fair and be gentlemen, and the new school who believe we need to play dirty like the democrats.
Personally I have always valued the rules, but at this moment in time I think the democrats have to be taught that it’s mutually assured destruction, and until they stop playing dirty, neither will we
That was a lot of fun to listen to. The time flew by.
Hi Glenn! The audio recording, both here and on Apple Podcasts, is not the talk with Jon H, but a copy of the last one with John McW.