Here’s something different for you. In this episode of The Glenn Show, I sit down with artist, writer, and TGS Creative Director Nikita Petrov to discuss two fundamental questions: “What the hell is going on?” and “What is to be done?” If those questions sound both deep and broad, there might be a reason. They occurred to Nikita in the wake of a recent psychedelic experience. Not your typical TGS fare, to be sure!
Nikita observation regarding CRT as being part of a kind of a naive adolescent phase may be accurate with respect to university students, and perhaps also antifa types, but I doubt that characterization will be relevant to embracement of CRT and related Woke agenda issues by teachers unions, NGOs and corporations. They are in it for power, control and money and will only be moved from this path when the costs outweigh the benefits. That seems to me to be a larger problem than cancel culture on campus (as destructive as that is).
This was really thought provoking! I for one love delving into the "woo" territory.
The tricky thing with CRT is that it is mistakenly used by the “academy” as a tool for traumatic interpersonal healing at the level of the individual. CRT is fine, and even highly useful at times in the way broader critical theory is, as an auxiliary to a Complexity Science approach to systems. But the challenge to having an engaging dialogue about CRT with its acolytes, is that this outward-focused utility, obscures the harm it can cause when used as an inward-focused interpersonal tool. And what’s worse, is this inward-focused interpersonal critique has become a stand-in for actual outward-focused systems change.
We have to remember that most members of the academy, and even those who are academy-adjacent, are individuals who are hypercritical and have unrelenting standards. That drives a passion for their work. However, what is an asset is also a liability, because if one believes they live in a world that is always disapproving and insurmountable, that belief can lead to an unconscious reenactment -- a false healing-- that glories in the demotion of others in the vain attempt to self-inflate.
William Deresiewicz, poetically decribes in Excellent Sheep (2014), finally recognizing his own painful and self-reinforcing unconscious behavior based on unrelenting standards, “I was missing my chance to be happy, missing my chance to be free. I was also missing something else: the joy that comes when you stop feeling threatened by other people’s accomplishments and let yourself be open to the beauty that they bring into the world. For that is one of the greatest curses of the high-achieving mentality: the envy that it forces on you--the desperation, not simply to be loved, but to be loved, as Auden says, alone. Milton, in Paradise Lost, has Satan put it like this--Satan, who is not a beastlike creature in the poem, but the brightest of the angels, the first in his class, fallen precisely, from excess ambition. He has arrived in Eden to destroy the happiness of Adam and Eve...That’s how envy works: the better things are, the worse they are, because they don’t belong to you. Or as Satan puts it more succinctly elsewhere in the poem, ‘myself am Hell.’ But now I’d finally had enough. I wasn’t going to be guilty anymore. I wasn’t going to punish myself by looking for reasons to be miserable. I wasn’t going to feel bad about feeling good. I had spent enough time in Hell. But it had taken more than thirty years to reach that point.”
I think, if I may be so presumptuous, a good Glenn rant is built on a foundation of believing in a world that has a capacity for goodness. Unlike many other academics who fixate on their own high standards, Glenn sees a high standard for the world and dares to imagine how the world could live up to the challenge of that standard. From this type of stance, a masterful individual can focus less on their own ego needs and more on their craft and work and sheer magnitude of hours of skilled practice. It's a bit akin to the "Yes, and" of brilliant improv comedy.
What I’m still trying to ponder on, is what changed in the academy? What led to this institutionalization of self-change over system-change? So, to me, it is less so about fighting CRT per se. And more so about getting the academy and its offshoots out of this self-imposed self-reinforcing misery.
Moreover, I think the notion of Psychedelic Economics is fascinating. What would the models look like if everyone had a psychedelic reset? Has anyone ever read Small is Beautiful--Economics as if People Mattered? Here's a thought provoking quote (one of many): "If the nature of change is such that nothing is left for the fathers to teach their sons, or for the sons to accept from their fathers, family life collapses. The life, work, and happiness of all societies depend on certain 'psychological structure' which are infinitely precious and highly vulnerable. Social cohesion, cooperation, mutual respect, and above all, self-respect, courage in the face of adversity, and the ability to bear hardship--all this and much else disintegrates and disappears when these 'psychological structures' are gravely damaged. A man is destroyed by the inner conviction of uselessness. No amount of economic growth can compensate for such losses--though this may be an idle reflection, since economic growth is normally inhibited by them."
Thank you so much, Glenn and Nikita! I loved this conversation! I love the contrast you drew between how a mature person faces their difficult past and how an immature person does -- and how this is best illustrated by great literature (Tolstoy!!). A perfect argument for reading great literature and less "popular" trash. Glenn, I so appreciate the objection you presented about CRT, etc -- that it reduces the complexity of human beings to just their skin color. Everyone is looking for simple solutions to life's complicated questions. So refreshing to hear the alternative view.
I wanted to add just one thing to your wonderful and illuminating exploration of what makes a great "Glenn rant," or Jimi Hendrix solo, etc -- an attentive audience who generously offer their devoted listening which enables the speaker/artist to express the depths which s/he may not know s/he possessed. Our listeners' ears/hearts are the ground on which our artistry may unfold and grow.
Thank you again for sharing your deep and inspiring conversation!!!
Thanks, I liked this segment. I may be extrapolating, I think Nikita at some point observes that name calling ends conversation/communication and Glenn concurs. Love that Glenn brought up the novel as a place for examining ideas, for me I find it a good and safe place to connect with ways of looking at the world that could pull me and the reader into--what?--consideration? sympathy? tolerance? All of that. Thank you both.
In listening to Nikita I was reminded of a 60 Minutes segment years ago when the Soviet Union had opened to allow Americans to come over and study the Russian language and culture. A female American student was asked about dating Russian men. She rolled her eyes as she said 'They all want to talk about the meaning of life!'
As a fellow Slav I feel fortunate to have been taken out of this milieu and exposed to the French project of self-creation and subsequently here in the U.S. to Anglo/Scottish/American pragmatism. We are all pragmatic products of evolution. My friendly advice to Nikita: Embrace American pragmatism. Maybe this is also the path to Glenn's quest: Move straight ahead, the past is not as determinative as you may think.
I apologize to this week’s guest, but Glenn, I can’t find a place to ask this question: have you already addressed the fact that John McWhorter is off your show due to a noncompete issue between NYTimes and Substack? Thanks from a subscriber, Theodore Olson.
Hey everybody. I feel like I rambled a lot in this one, but I think it was inevitable since what I’m trying to talk about is hard to put in words. If you’re curious, here’s one of my attempts to describe my perspective on ideology: https://psychopolitica.substack.com/p/towards-a-psychopolitical-method
Nikita observation regarding CRT as being part of a kind of a naive adolescent phase may be accurate with respect to university students, and perhaps also antifa types, but I doubt that characterization will be relevant to embracement of CRT and related Woke agenda issues by teachers unions, NGOs and corporations. They are in it for power, control and money and will only be moved from this path when the costs outweigh the benefits. That seems to me to be a larger problem than cancel culture on campus (as destructive as that is).
Thank you Glenn & Nikita.
This was really thought provoking! I for one love delving into the "woo" territory.
The tricky thing with CRT is that it is mistakenly used by the “academy” as a tool for traumatic interpersonal healing at the level of the individual. CRT is fine, and even highly useful at times in the way broader critical theory is, as an auxiliary to a Complexity Science approach to systems. But the challenge to having an engaging dialogue about CRT with its acolytes, is that this outward-focused utility, obscures the harm it can cause when used as an inward-focused interpersonal tool. And what’s worse, is this inward-focused interpersonal critique has become a stand-in for actual outward-focused systems change.
We have to remember that most members of the academy, and even those who are academy-adjacent, are individuals who are hypercritical and have unrelenting standards. That drives a passion for their work. However, what is an asset is also a liability, because if one believes they live in a world that is always disapproving and insurmountable, that belief can lead to an unconscious reenactment -- a false healing-- that glories in the demotion of others in the vain attempt to self-inflate.
William Deresiewicz, poetically decribes in Excellent Sheep (2014), finally recognizing his own painful and self-reinforcing unconscious behavior based on unrelenting standards, “I was missing my chance to be happy, missing my chance to be free. I was also missing something else: the joy that comes when you stop feeling threatened by other people’s accomplishments and let yourself be open to the beauty that they bring into the world. For that is one of the greatest curses of the high-achieving mentality: the envy that it forces on you--the desperation, not simply to be loved, but to be loved, as Auden says, alone. Milton, in Paradise Lost, has Satan put it like this--Satan, who is not a beastlike creature in the poem, but the brightest of the angels, the first in his class, fallen precisely, from excess ambition. He has arrived in Eden to destroy the happiness of Adam and Eve...That’s how envy works: the better things are, the worse they are, because they don’t belong to you. Or as Satan puts it more succinctly elsewhere in the poem, ‘myself am Hell.’ But now I’d finally had enough. I wasn’t going to be guilty anymore. I wasn’t going to punish myself by looking for reasons to be miserable. I wasn’t going to feel bad about feeling good. I had spent enough time in Hell. But it had taken more than thirty years to reach that point.”
I think, if I may be so presumptuous, a good Glenn rant is built on a foundation of believing in a world that has a capacity for goodness. Unlike many other academics who fixate on their own high standards, Glenn sees a high standard for the world and dares to imagine how the world could live up to the challenge of that standard. From this type of stance, a masterful individual can focus less on their own ego needs and more on their craft and work and sheer magnitude of hours of skilled practice. It's a bit akin to the "Yes, and" of brilliant improv comedy.
What I’m still trying to ponder on, is what changed in the academy? What led to this institutionalization of self-change over system-change? So, to me, it is less so about fighting CRT per se. And more so about getting the academy and its offshoots out of this self-imposed self-reinforcing misery.
Moreover, I think the notion of Psychedelic Economics is fascinating. What would the models look like if everyone had a psychedelic reset? Has anyone ever read Small is Beautiful--Economics as if People Mattered? Here's a thought provoking quote (one of many): "If the nature of change is such that nothing is left for the fathers to teach their sons, or for the sons to accept from their fathers, family life collapses. The life, work, and happiness of all societies depend on certain 'psychological structure' which are infinitely precious and highly vulnerable. Social cohesion, cooperation, mutual respect, and above all, self-respect, courage in the face of adversity, and the ability to bear hardship--all this and much else disintegrates and disappears when these 'psychological structures' are gravely damaged. A man is destroyed by the inner conviction of uselessness. No amount of economic growth can compensate for such losses--though this may be an idle reflection, since economic growth is normally inhibited by them."
Glenn was in rare form in this interview. Excellent!
Thank you so much, Glenn and Nikita! I loved this conversation! I love the contrast you drew between how a mature person faces their difficult past and how an immature person does -- and how this is best illustrated by great literature (Tolstoy!!). A perfect argument for reading great literature and less "popular" trash. Glenn, I so appreciate the objection you presented about CRT, etc -- that it reduces the complexity of human beings to just their skin color. Everyone is looking for simple solutions to life's complicated questions. So refreshing to hear the alternative view.
I wanted to add just one thing to your wonderful and illuminating exploration of what makes a great "Glenn rant," or Jimi Hendrix solo, etc -- an attentive audience who generously offer their devoted listening which enables the speaker/artist to express the depths which s/he may not know s/he possessed. Our listeners' ears/hearts are the ground on which our artistry may unfold and grow.
Thank you again for sharing your deep and inspiring conversation!!!
Thanks, I liked this segment. I may be extrapolating, I think Nikita at some point observes that name calling ends conversation/communication and Glenn concurs. Love that Glenn brought up the novel as a place for examining ideas, for me I find it a good and safe place to connect with ways of looking at the world that could pull me and the reader into--what?--consideration? sympathy? tolerance? All of that. Thank you both.
In listening to Nikita I was reminded of a 60 Minutes segment years ago when the Soviet Union had opened to allow Americans to come over and study the Russian language and culture. A female American student was asked about dating Russian men. She rolled her eyes as she said 'They all want to talk about the meaning of life!'
As a fellow Slav I feel fortunate to have been taken out of this milieu and exposed to the French project of self-creation and subsequently here in the U.S. to Anglo/Scottish/American pragmatism. We are all pragmatic products of evolution. My friendly advice to Nikita: Embrace American pragmatism. Maybe this is also the path to Glenn's quest: Move straight ahead, the past is not as determinative as you may think.
I apologize to this week’s guest, but Glenn, I can’t find a place to ask this question: have you already addressed the fact that John McWhorter is off your show due to a noncompete issue between NYTimes and Substack? Thanks from a subscriber, Theodore Olson.
Hey everybody. I feel like I rambled a lot in this one, but I think it was inevitable since what I’m trying to talk about is hard to put in words. If you’re curious, here’s one of my attempts to describe my perspective on ideology: https://psychopolitica.substack.com/p/towards-a-psychopolitical-method
One hour of sophomoric navel-gazing, eight minutes of lint. Very disappointing.