Glenn Loury
The Glenn Show
Philip Howard – Getting Unions Out of Government
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Current time: 0:00 / Total time: -1:09:22
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Philip Howard – Getting Unions Out of Government

My guest this week is the lawyer and writer Philip Howard, author of Not Accountable: Rethinking the Constitutionality of Public Employee Unions, among many other books. Philip is a longtime critic of regulatory overreach and administrative bloat, which he says hinder the ability of businesses to operate efficiently and infringe on Americans’ freedom. But Philip is no hardhearted arch-conservative stock character. As you’ll see in this conversation, he’s got a deep belief in the capacity of communities to come together in mutual support, as long as the broader social conditions are conducive.

I begin by having Philip take me through some of his interrelated criticisms of the legal profession, regulatory agencies, and healthcare costs. He sees these institutions charged with safeguarding freedom and human choice instead concerning themselves with expanding their own power and influence. He sees us living within a culture of compliance, where individuals and businesses are hemmed in by regulations that limit their ability to act, where he would prefer to see a culture of judgment, where actors are free to strive, experiment, and innovate, so long as they don’t violate anyone’s rights or run afoul of the general principles that allow our society to function. Public sector unions are, to Philip, entities that have an undue, and often virtually unchecked, social and political power wildly out of proportion to the value they provide their members. (And in some respects, that includes police unions.) Ultimately, Philip thinks these unions have so much political influence that the only way to curtail them is through constitutional measures.

Philip is a thoughtful, rigorous thinker on these matters. It was a pleasure to have him on for the last episode on 2023. Hopefully we’ll see him again soon.

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0:00 Philip’s early work on post-nuclear war recovery

2:26 Philip’s skepticism toward the role of lawyers in the US

4:34 What’s wrong with the EPA, OSHA, and the EEOC?

6:59 How to ensure worker safety without “4,000 rules”

8:07 Why the US spends so much on healthcare

11:32 Philip: We’ve degenerated into a culture of distrust

14:58 The origins of American distrust

18:42 Re-instilling trust

21:38 The problems of national security and public health

26:57 Are public employee unions constitutional?

39:35 Market constraints don’t hold for government employees

34:55 Do public sector workers need protection from exploitation?

39:22 Philip: “Public service is repellant to good candidates”

40:58 A short history of the civil service

46:49 Is Philip inveighing against the Democratic Party and the labor movement at large?

53:12 Philip: Police unions prevent accountability, too

56:08 The necessity of a constitutional solution to public unions

1:00:58 Philip: The political organizing of public unions harms the public

1:04:46 Would the current Supreme Court be receptive to Philip’s case?

Recorded October 16, 2023


Links and Readings

Philip’s book, The Death of Common Sense: How Law Is Suffocating America

Philip’s book, Life Without Lawyers: Restoring Responsibility in America

Philip’s latest book, Not Accountable: Rethinking the Constitutionality of Public Employee Unions

Edward Banfield’s book, The Moral Basis of a Backward Society

Robert Putnam’s book, Making Democracy Work: Civic Traditions in Modern Italy

Philip’s forthcoming book, Everyday Freedom: Designing the Framework for a Flourishing Society


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Glenn Loury
The Glenn Show
Race, inequality, and economics in the US and throughout the world from Glenn Loury, Professor of Economics at Brown University and Paulson Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute