Q&A: Did I Flip-Flop on Trump?

with John McWhorter

Tomorrow, in lieu of our regular episode, I’m going to release the November Q&A to both free and full subscribers. Every month, John and I solicit questions from viewers, pick a handful, and respond to them in a bonus episode. Only full subscribers are able to ask questions (though anyone can read them), and only full subscribers have access to the episode. But this is a particularly rich installment of the series, and I wanted to give free subscribers a glimpse of what they’re missing out on.

In this preview clip from tomorrow’s episode, a subscriber asks me to reconcile what might seem like two contradictory positions. In 2021, I averred that Trump’s repeated attempts to overturn the election results constituted conduct unbecoming of the presidency. John had thought as much all along, and I conceded that he was correct. Yet after Trump’s win this year, I revealed myself to be excited about his upcoming presidency.

Is this “I was against it before I was for it”-style flip-flopping? I don’t think so. The American electorate voted Trump into office again this year. If Kamala Harris had won, I wouldn’t have been happy, but I would have dealt with it. And though I didn’t support Trump’s candidacy, he won fair and square. Whatever we’re going to get from him over the next four years, it’s not going to be business as usual. And we simply can’t afford—economically, socially, and geopolitically—another term of business as usual. So yes, while I’m wary of some of his stated goals, I’m also excited about the possibility for change.

John, as you all know, is not excited. We get into it a little in this clip. And we get into it even more in the full Q&A episode, which you’ll receive tomorrow. It’s an intense exchange, at times. So if you like what you see here, and you’re not a full subscriber, consider becoming one. You’ll get regular TGS episodes early every week—on Mondays instead of Fridays—commenting privileges, Q&As, post-show bonus episodes, and a host of other goodies.

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This is a preview of an upcoming Q&A episode of The Glenn Show. To get more Q&As and a host of other benefits, click below to become a full subscriber.

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GLENN LOURY: You ready, John?

JOHN MCWHORTER: I'm ready.

All right. This is from Mike Spooner.

Glenn, in your first discussion with John after January 6, 2021, you told John “I was wrong about Trump” and “You, John, were right.” Those are quotes. Do you still stand by this statement? If not, what was it that made you change your mind?

And I can respond, Mike Spooner.

I do still stand by that statement. You have to remember that after January 6, 2021, the riot at the Capitol inspired by Donald Trump in protest against the outcome of the 2020 election, which Joseph Biden had won, the purpose of which was to disrupt the ordinary processes of government that would have certified Joseph Biden's victory.

I thought, and I still think, Donald Trump should have stood down. He had his day in court. It didn't work out for him. I am not now addressing the merits of his various claims. They are what they are. The merits of those claims are what they are. I'm not saying they were without merit. I am not saying that they were entirely meritorious.

I'm simply saying he had his day in court and it didn't work out. We're a republic governed by a constitution, which is law. When it doesn't work out, you stand down. The enterprise of trying to overturn the outcome of that election, which Trump engaged in unsuccessfully, was unbecoming in the extreme, in my opinion, of someone who would lead our country. I didn't see that coming. John, in his assessment of Trump, was not at all surprised that he stooped to that depth. I was wrong and he was right. I don't see any reason to change that assessment.

I think the implicit question is, why didn't my judgment that Trump behaved despicably in January and preceding of 2021 and the months preceding preclude me from supporting the outcome of the election. I did not support Trump during the campaign. I did not vote for him, if you must know that. No, I'm not telling you who I voted for, but I'm telling you, as I said out loud, I didn't vote for him and I didn't vote for Kamala Harris. But after the election, I said I was excited at the prospect that my country was moving in a new direction and I was happy that the Democrats lost.

I don't see any contradiction between those two things. Between, on the one hand, thinking that Trump behaved despicably in his handling of his defeat in 2020, and thinking that, on the other hand, I had a strong preference not to see Kamala Harris and the Democratic establishment affirmed in the election of 2024.

I stand by the statement that I was wrong and John was right about Trump in 2021. And I also stand by my more recent statements that it's a new day politically in America. It's very exciting to see what's going on and we'll take it a day at a time from here.

Glenn, I think your answer basically covers this, because how I feel is quite clear from our previous discussions. I'll just say briefly, and I really mean briefly, Trump was about to deny that he lost if he had. He was going to do it again. I find that utterly, conclusively reprehensible. He was going to do the same thing.

Wait a minute, what do you find reprehensible? That you think he was going to do it? Or that you know he was going to? Because you don't know what he was going to do in the counterfactual circumstance.

He would never allow that he could be legitimately defeated. Whenever he was asked the question, he would evade it. He was gonna do the same thing. Trump, you could have a calendar ...

But he didn't do the same thing. And in fact, the voters affirmed his candidacy quite to the contrary of the spirit of your remark. I'm hard pressed to see how your speculation about what he was going to do is relevant.

“Daily Bad Trump Thing,” taking the calendar. Something I just learned about him. John Lewis, civil rights icon, passes away. Everybody in the world, basically, prays for him. The whole world celebrates—not celebrates, commemorates John Lewis. Really, the whole country. Everybody, of any stripe. Donald Trump did not attend the funeral. The reason was because Lewis had not attended his inauguration. The president did not commemorate the passing of John Lewis. That can be my answer to the question.

Okay, I see that.

Isn't that disgusting?

I agree that he should have attended Lewis's funeral, to be sure. If he wanted the votes of anybody in the traditions that Lewis represented, he should have attended the funeral. If he simply wanted to represent the country adequately, he should have attended the funeral of this civil rights icon. Yeah, that's small. That was small.

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