I think the problems of local legalization are amplified somewhat by the fact that we are attracting addicts from other places, but mostly I think it illustrates what it would look like nationwide. Unlike you I am not convinced that we have done it terribly much in recent years to enforce drug laws. Certainly we have not on the West Coast at all. But who knows. I just want out of the personal hell this town has become because it is entirely unlivable and I am unfortunately stuck here by virtue of my job.
The war on drugs was justified, in the 70s, in response to community harm. Generation Z talk about a fast-food sandwich being ‘like crack’ and that they are ‘addicted’ and ‘obsessed’ with some sugary coffee drink from a Seattle based chain. You are both old enough to remember the real fear that gripped our nation in the late 80s and early 90s as crack cocaine began to take root - even in rural areas. Families would search for their addicted family members in scary crack houses. Did sentencing overreach? Yes? Has that been addressed. Obviously - since the real Freeway Rick Ross is out along with most of the people affected.
Today we have a preventable issue that is killing a record number of Americans, especially black and brown lives, and is even jeopardizing first responders. It is very easy to be in a predominately BIPOC neighborhood and perceive that all the police do is pull or stop over black and brown folks. It is statistically true too. Just as you mentioned cops are not as active on the Upper West Side, compared to population statistics, however when you compare stops to crime victimization, it almost overlays.
Heavens to Betsies, NO, ffs guys, do you really want the entire financial system to collapse? Do you really want off the book operations to end? What will the CIA do? The drug war lubricates all the clandestine routes into America. How are you going to traffic humans with this gone? It will seriously raise the price of trafficked humans. It will end operations that no one wants reported to congress.
And what about the prisons and the illegal arms trade? The drug trade is heavily reliant on illegal arms and prisons are reliant on drug crimes.
You go ahead do this and you will fuck the entire system up.
The War on Drugs Failed like all US wars since Viet Nam. The Warbwas a money grab for Police and Feds with no results or accountability. Planting drugs was a tactic of Philly Cops in the 70s. Start with legalizing pot ( schedule 1) like we did in NJ then maybe mushrooms. No one says legalize fentanyl.
As a libertarian, I'm mostly against drug laws. But if the only goal is to reduce interactions between (black) youth and police, how much would the reduction be offset by an increase in crime by people affected by drugs? For example, would lowering the drinking age increase the rate of DUI?
Is there a distributed cost to the neighborhood of increased drug sales and use?
I'd point to the decriminalization of shoplifting (presumably to achieve similar goals). How is that working out?
Finally, to Glenn's point, would it really change attitudes? What policing is "acceptable" in the eyes of angry youth?
I agree with John, there's certainly problems with the way policing has been applied, but I'm not sure reducing its scope is the best solution.
Maybe the wiser course of action is to end the war on drugs in the United States, but as others have noted doing so certainly has consequences for the quality of life in our major cities. In any case, I feel like it's worth pointing out that countries like Singapore have some of the most draconian drug laws in the world both against drug use and drug selling/trafficking. Yet Singapore is probably one of the nicest places in the world and I'm not under the impression that there's any lack of trust between the police and the general populace.
Based on what I've seen and read, I'd much rather live in Singapore than Portland if given a choice between the two.
If John wants to decriminalize drugs, he needs to first visit Portland, Oregon, which has become a living hell since we decriminalized all drugs. Actually in the past few weeks the NYT has finally started doing good reporting on this. You cannot walk a block without inhaling second hand fentanyl smoke and it is not unusual for their to be as many as four lethal overdoses in a 24 hour period. We have attracted addicts from all over the country and crime has skyrocketed. Quality of life has crashed and homelessness is among the worst anywhere. Although we are much smaller than San Fran, last year we had more homicides than that (very messed up) city did. Most fentanyl smokers have been Narcan'd back to life over 2 dozen times.
Drugs have changed. This is not as simple as John says of "addiction rates will rise." They will SKYROCKET and it's not "addiction rates," it is really sad, horrible deaths. This is not a fair price to pay for a more productive discussion of race. You will see women pathetically screaming, "I'll blow you for $5." It is horrific.
And, most importantly, I am not convinced that there is a treatment that is effective for fentanyl or the current form of meth. It seems vital instead to cut the supply and prevent new addicts. I don't think many fentanyl addicts live more than about 24 months. Do not let your city become the guinea pig that Portland Oregon is. Certainly not in the name of limiting interactions between cops and people of color
Come on, Glenn! That’s hardly even an interesting question! Yes is the obvious answer. Thanks for the meatball to hit out the park, but I’m tryin to compete in the big leagues! This penny ante thumbsucker, square faced butt pusher nonsense might challenge finger waggers and knuckle draggers, but where’s the substance in a “no” today? It’s not even a question. Happy retirement, Glenn. Smile
I think the problems of local legalization are amplified somewhat by the fact that we are attracting addicts from other places, but mostly I think it illustrates what it would look like nationwide. Unlike you I am not convinced that we have done it terribly much in recent years to enforce drug laws. Certainly we have not on the West Coast at all. But who knows. I just want out of the personal hell this town has become because it is entirely unlivable and I am unfortunately stuck here by virtue of my job.
The war on drugs was justified, in the 70s, in response to community harm. Generation Z talk about a fast-food sandwich being ‘like crack’ and that they are ‘addicted’ and ‘obsessed’ with some sugary coffee drink from a Seattle based chain. You are both old enough to remember the real fear that gripped our nation in the late 80s and early 90s as crack cocaine began to take root - even in rural areas. Families would search for their addicted family members in scary crack houses. Did sentencing overreach? Yes? Has that been addressed. Obviously - since the real Freeway Rick Ross is out along with most of the people affected.
Today we have a preventable issue that is killing a record number of Americans, especially black and brown lives, and is even jeopardizing first responders. It is very easy to be in a predominately BIPOC neighborhood and perceive that all the police do is pull or stop over black and brown folks. It is statistically true too. Just as you mentioned cops are not as active on the Upper West Side, compared to population statistics, however when you compare stops to crime victimization, it almost overlays.
John's point adds to my reasons for wanting drugs legalized.
Heavens to Betsies, NO, ffs guys, do you really want the entire financial system to collapse? Do you really want off the book operations to end? What will the CIA do? The drug war lubricates all the clandestine routes into America. How are you going to traffic humans with this gone? It will seriously raise the price of trafficked humans. It will end operations that no one wants reported to congress.
And what about the prisons and the illegal arms trade? The drug trade is heavily reliant on illegal arms and prisons are reliant on drug crimes.
You go ahead do this and you will fuck the entire system up.
The War on Drugs Failed like all US wars since Viet Nam. The Warbwas a money grab for Police and Feds with no results or accountability. Planting drugs was a tactic of Philly Cops in the 70s. Start with legalizing pot ( schedule 1) like we did in NJ then maybe mushrooms. No one says legalize fentanyl.
As a libertarian, I'm mostly against drug laws. But if the only goal is to reduce interactions between (black) youth and police, how much would the reduction be offset by an increase in crime by people affected by drugs? For example, would lowering the drinking age increase the rate of DUI?
Is there a distributed cost to the neighborhood of increased drug sales and use?
I'd point to the decriminalization of shoplifting (presumably to achieve similar goals). How is that working out?
Finally, to Glenn's point, would it really change attitudes? What policing is "acceptable" in the eyes of angry youth?
I agree with John, there's certainly problems with the way policing has been applied, but I'm not sure reducing its scope is the best solution.
I'll go for it if we can legalize a cull hunt at the same time.
Maybe the wiser course of action is to end the war on drugs in the United States, but as others have noted doing so certainly has consequences for the quality of life in our major cities. In any case, I feel like it's worth pointing out that countries like Singapore have some of the most draconian drug laws in the world both against drug use and drug selling/trafficking. Yet Singapore is probably one of the nicest places in the world and I'm not under the impression that there's any lack of trust between the police and the general populace.
Based on what I've seen and read, I'd much rather live in Singapore than Portland if given a choice between the two.
If John wants to decriminalize drugs, he needs to first visit Portland, Oregon, which has become a living hell since we decriminalized all drugs. Actually in the past few weeks the NYT has finally started doing good reporting on this. You cannot walk a block without inhaling second hand fentanyl smoke and it is not unusual for their to be as many as four lethal overdoses in a 24 hour period. We have attracted addicts from all over the country and crime has skyrocketed. Quality of life has crashed and homelessness is among the worst anywhere. Although we are much smaller than San Fran, last year we had more homicides than that (very messed up) city did. Most fentanyl smokers have been Narcan'd back to life over 2 dozen times.
Drugs have changed. This is not as simple as John says of "addiction rates will rise." They will SKYROCKET and it's not "addiction rates," it is really sad, horrible deaths. This is not a fair price to pay for a more productive discussion of race. You will see women pathetically screaming, "I'll blow you for $5." It is horrific.
And, most importantly, I am not convinced that there is a treatment that is effective for fentanyl or the current form of meth. It seems vital instead to cut the supply and prevent new addicts. I don't think many fentanyl addicts live more than about 24 months. Do not let your city become the guinea pig that Portland Oregon is. Certainly not in the name of limiting interactions between cops and people of color
Come on, Glenn! That’s hardly even an interesting question! Yes is the obvious answer. Thanks for the meatball to hit out the park, but I’m tryin to compete in the big leagues! This penny ante thumbsucker, square faced butt pusher nonsense might challenge finger waggers and knuckle draggers, but where’s the substance in a “no” today? It’s not even a question. Happy retirement, Glenn. Smile
The War on (Some) Drugs is a racist's wet dream. Dump it and move on.