The combination of your technical analyses and personal sentiments on these issues is compelling and a valuable contribution to social and intellectual health. Last summer I started thinking through the implications of so-called antiracism in my field (psychotherapy). Listening to you, Sowell, and others has validated my concerns. Some might say that given my race, I have no right to call out the harms of antiracism in my field, but since you gentleman do so in yours, I'm content to do my part too. Thank you for leading.
A person's results in life are based both on their unchosen realities and chosen actions. Unchosen, in which they are blameless, include sex, race, class of parents & marital status, IQ, neighborhoods where they live as children. These are powerful influences, but not as decisive as actions, especially the success choices: finish high school, no children before marriage, keep a job for at least a year, avoid addiction, avoid arrests (and do not commit crimes). Those in America who do these actions avoid poverty. Virtually all poor White folk fail to have one or more of these success behaviors.
Blacks fail to behave in these ways more often than Whites fail.
It's not "White privilege", it's "success privilege" based mostly on behavior.
Racism exists and makes success behavior more difficult, as well as less rewarding, which is not fair. But life is not fair. (No justice system can make "life fair")
More Blacks need to focus more on success behavior of Blacks, and less on White racism; "racism" has become an excuse for inexcusable behavior, like driving an SUV to kill kids and grannies.
Are you following ANC progress in South Africa? for 27 years they've used "Apartheid", terrible and racist, as an excuse for bad results, which were actually more because of bad gov't.
Thank you for sharing this heartening email. I totally agree with Brad's sentiments. Listening to John and you has not only opened my aperture on the questions you discuss, but has also made me more empathetic, thoughtful and nuanced when discussing them with people who have different perspectives.
As it could be helpful to readers like Brad and Maci that are interested in reaching out to the other side, I'd like to flag an organization called Braver Angels (www.braverangels.org), with which I know John and you are familiar.
Braver Angels is dedicated to depolarizing our country by bringing together people of different perspectives to have conversations designed to facilitate mutual understanding, help people see the humanity in each other, and enable them to find common ground if it exists. We are not trying to change anyone's mind, but rather to change how we treat each other as fellow Americans with different perspectives. To those ends, we provide free workshops to teach the skills needed for such conversations, and other free offerings to give people opportunities to practice those skills. I would like to highlight two offerings that are particularly relevant to this conversation:
I am the woke family member this show helped. I became a lot more pleasant to be around (believe it or not) when I found an excuse (any excuse) to kick the hyper woke politics to the curb. That these are the black guys talking about race and technically rigorous subjects only solidifies that this is a universal human experience because I needed this very badly, while actually understanding very little of the subject. This happened just in time for my sister’s first child. I went from being, “talk to your kids about gender, it’s urgent,” to, “talk to your kids about gender, if they approach you with issues about gender.” That’s a bigger change than it seems.
Nice letter. In answer to Glenn's question: all of the shows are useful. 1: You can send a link with the message that "Here are two guys I'm listening to, that I think you'll find interesting." Then you can talk about what the two guys said, which gives the discussion a good structure. 2: Glenn invites people like Lara Bazelon and Clifton Roscoe to contribute, which makes the show a place to find other accessible and civil, rational voices. 3: The contrast between you guys' temperament is so funny that your dialogue almost always lightens up the atmosphere and makes touchy issues easier to discuss.
I am basically like Glenn on issues of race, but less so with US politics in general. That is to say I have almost zero patience for Trumpism.
But as a Black man, just turned 56, there is one particular aspect of Glenn's persona that helps me if I am trying to communicate with people who come from the left.
I'm talking about Glenn's rather complicated but truly fascinating story: A world-renowned Black conservative economics professor; from the southside of Chicago, no less. Who, btw, became a dad at 18, a crack addict in his 30s, and a Hillary supporter in his early 60s and an Obama hater in his late 60s.
Glenn has seen a LOT. And read a lot. And researched a lot.
Taught a lot, thought a lot, debated a lot, reconsidered a lot; and isn't afraid to have a REAL conversation with anybody. While there are many pundits who claim to hold conservative views, I could never say to a liberal/centrist friend (or enemy), "Google Candace Owens. She's a great representative for the conservative cause." Because she's a not a serious person.
And it's not fair to single her out because this is true for MOST of the so-called right as we see them in the media, including their own.
But I take Glenn seriously, even when he annoys me. Because I know he's a serious reflective man.
Meh, Sowell is NOT someone who pushes dispassionate analysis (we can have a long exchange on the pure propagandistic bullshit he’s peddled on claimate change). Sowell is an ideologue through and through and the fact that he conveniently falls on one side of almost every issue should give anyone who reads him pause (like seriously, what’re the chances of that?). I’m sure lefties like myself can learn from him but can we please stop pushing Sowell like he’s anything other than a paid right wing stooge at this point.
The thing that helps me the most with your work (specifically you -John helps in other ways) is that you help build up a system of shared values that I think are mutually acceptable in almost all cases.
If you're white in the US and try to talk about race issues almost nobody will believe that you genuinely care about the people you're talking about, particularly if your ideas are counter-intuitive, and especially if you refuse to play performative moral games. Most of the time I just have to bow out of conversations where my motives are assumed before my point can even be made, but lately I've been trying to use some of your rhetoric to genuinely show that I actually want things to get better for people, and am not just pursuing power and forwarding 'white supremacy'. Sometimes it actually works.
Often my words can't speak louder than the apparent implications of my skin color, but now and then I get through to people. It's a nice thing -especially since I don't feel obliged to just say "these aren't my ideas, these were thought up by a black guy -go read Basic Economics", and the bugger out of the conversation.
The combination of your technical analyses and personal sentiments on these issues is compelling and a valuable contribution to social and intellectual health. Last summer I started thinking through the implications of so-called antiracism in my field (psychotherapy). Listening to you, Sowell, and others has validated my concerns. Some might say that given my race, I have no right to call out the harms of antiracism in my field, but since you gentleman do so in yours, I'm content to do my part too. Thank you for leading.
A person's results in life are based both on their unchosen realities and chosen actions. Unchosen, in which they are blameless, include sex, race, class of parents & marital status, IQ, neighborhoods where they live as children. These are powerful influences, but not as decisive as actions, especially the success choices: finish high school, no children before marriage, keep a job for at least a year, avoid addiction, avoid arrests (and do not commit crimes). Those in America who do these actions avoid poverty. Virtually all poor White folk fail to have one or more of these success behaviors.
Blacks fail to behave in these ways more often than Whites fail.
It's not "White privilege", it's "success privilege" based mostly on behavior.
Racism exists and makes success behavior more difficult, as well as less rewarding, which is not fair. But life is not fair. (No justice system can make "life fair")
More Blacks need to focus more on success behavior of Blacks, and less on White racism; "racism" has become an excuse for inexcusable behavior, like driving an SUV to kill kids and grannies.
Are you following ANC progress in South Africa? for 27 years they've used "Apartheid", terrible and racist, as an excuse for bad results, which were actually more because of bad gov't.
https://www.politicsweb.co.za/opinion/the-end-of-the-apartheid-alibi
Thank you for sharing this heartening email. I totally agree with Brad's sentiments. Listening to John and you has not only opened my aperture on the questions you discuss, but has also made me more empathetic, thoughtful and nuanced when discussing them with people who have different perspectives.
As it could be helpful to readers like Brad and Maci that are interested in reaching out to the other side, I'd like to flag an organization called Braver Angels (www.braverangels.org), with which I know John and you are familiar.
Braver Angels is dedicated to depolarizing our country by bringing together people of different perspectives to have conversations designed to facilitate mutual understanding, help people see the humanity in each other, and enable them to find common ground if it exists. We are not trying to change anyone's mind, but rather to change how we treat each other as fellow Americans with different perspectives. To those ends, we provide free workshops to teach the skills needed for such conversations, and other free offerings to give people opportunities to practice those skills. I would like to highlight two offerings that are particularly relevant to this conversation:
"Depolarizing Conversations about Race" workshop:
-- https://braverangels.org/what-we-do/depolarizing-conversations-about-race/
"1:1 Conversation about Race, Ethnicity and Culture":
-- https://braverangels.org/online/1-1-conversations/
-- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rV2KFonffEfUOS-fY2m9V_KI5dCpHKs5is6hIDhockM/edit)
Thank you again.
It was an absolutely wonderful conversation Professor Loury and I really wish you would publish a complete transcript of it.
I am the woke family member this show helped. I became a lot more pleasant to be around (believe it or not) when I found an excuse (any excuse) to kick the hyper woke politics to the curb. That these are the black guys talking about race and technically rigorous subjects only solidifies that this is a universal human experience because I needed this very badly, while actually understanding very little of the subject. This happened just in time for my sister’s first child. I went from being, “talk to your kids about gender, it’s urgent,” to, “talk to your kids about gender, if they approach you with issues about gender.” That’s a bigger change than it seems.
Nice letter. In answer to Glenn's question: all of the shows are useful. 1: You can send a link with the message that "Here are two guys I'm listening to, that I think you'll find interesting." Then you can talk about what the two guys said, which gives the discussion a good structure. 2: Glenn invites people like Lara Bazelon and Clifton Roscoe to contribute, which makes the show a place to find other accessible and civil, rational voices. 3: The contrast between you guys' temperament is so funny that your dialogue almost always lightens up the atmosphere and makes touchy issues easier to discuss.
I am basically like Glenn on issues of race, but less so with US politics in general. That is to say I have almost zero patience for Trumpism.
But as a Black man, just turned 56, there is one particular aspect of Glenn's persona that helps me if I am trying to communicate with people who come from the left.
I'm talking about Glenn's rather complicated but truly fascinating story: A world-renowned Black conservative economics professor; from the southside of Chicago, no less. Who, btw, became a dad at 18, a crack addict in his 30s, and a Hillary supporter in his early 60s and an Obama hater in his late 60s.
Glenn has seen a LOT. And read a lot. And researched a lot.
Taught a lot, thought a lot, debated a lot, reconsidered a lot; and isn't afraid to have a REAL conversation with anybody. While there are many pundits who claim to hold conservative views, I could never say to a liberal/centrist friend (or enemy), "Google Candace Owens. She's a great representative for the conservative cause." Because she's a not a serious person.
And it's not fair to single her out because this is true for MOST of the so-called right as we see them in the media, including their own.
But I take Glenn seriously, even when he annoys me. Because I know he's a serious reflective man.
Meh, Sowell is NOT someone who pushes dispassionate analysis (we can have a long exchange on the pure propagandistic bullshit he’s peddled on claimate change). Sowell is an ideologue through and through and the fact that he conveniently falls on one side of almost every issue should give anyone who reads him pause (like seriously, what’re the chances of that?). I’m sure lefties like myself can learn from him but can we please stop pushing Sowell like he’s anything other than a paid right wing stooge at this point.
To Brad - I really hope you write that article and let us know where to find it!
Can only say... Nice doesn't really cover it, does it? Exemplary, mebbe. TYTY to both-a You.
The thing that helps me the most with your work (specifically you -John helps in other ways) is that you help build up a system of shared values that I think are mutually acceptable in almost all cases.
If you're white in the US and try to talk about race issues almost nobody will believe that you genuinely care about the people you're talking about, particularly if your ideas are counter-intuitive, and especially if you refuse to play performative moral games. Most of the time I just have to bow out of conversations where my motives are assumed before my point can even be made, but lately I've been trying to use some of your rhetoric to genuinely show that I actually want things to get better for people, and am not just pursuing power and forwarding 'white supremacy'. Sometimes it actually works.
Often my words can't speak louder than the apparent implications of my skin color, but now and then I get through to people. It's a nice thing -especially since I don't feel obliged to just say "these aren't my ideas, these were thought up by a black guy -go read Basic Economics", and the bugger out of the conversation.