Someone may be able to answer this. If you take the "elite" schools (the 8 Ivies, 7 Sisters {which no one mentions}, MIT, CalTech, Stanford & Duke) as an example, I'm sure there's others, there is X number of open slots for freshman. How many would be available for the socio-economical "affirmative action? Would the many now rising number of Mixed race, Black, Hispanic, Asia-Pacific, Pacific Rim, Near & Middle Eastern children of wealthy Execs, Sports figures, Entertainment figures, Academics, Politicians of the same & who could afford the schools take up spaces leaving less available? Also add in legacy athlete students. Do they have the "contacts" through their parents. Does going to a less "elite school for undergrad, then an "elite" post-Grad make up for any "contact" gap? Is there a "gender affirmative action"? No agenda, just questions?
My son, a "URM", went to MIT in the early teens. I confess I struggled with the fact that I *knew* his application would be viewed differently because of his skin color. Thus, despite a 1590 SAT, national awards in math, physics, and chess, radically accelerated coursework in math and physics (upper-division college-level work), physics research, and being an outstanding musician, baseball player, and all-around great person, affirmative action somehow diminishes his accomplishments. (He was admitted to all his colleges including several Ivies, and he certainly is an outlier in his accomplishments, but...) It's a conundrum.
I like John's comments: let's work on improving education when kids are younger. We opted to homeschool and I'm a strong supporter of school choice.
Using the metaphor of the abolitionist press, Garrison was almost an honorary Black person from the POV of Black abolitionists and said what a politically normative Black person would say, but newspapers such as Freedom's Journal and Douglass's various efforts were important in order to construct a Black public sphere. The work Black people do to construct Black identity and the Black public sphere will go on whether or not the university is interested in it but if the university has some claim to be universalistic the university may want to make space for that discourse instead of being simply somewhere where non-Black people talk about Blackness as a metaphor.
I also made sure to read the story about North Carolina where the Black freshman enrollment decreased about 2.8 percentage points. They could not explain it except by referring to the financial aid FUBAR but that is a deficit small enough that a local civil organization interested in steering talented in-state students to the university might be able to make it up. Being admitted to MIT depends on good STEM programs at the high school level which is a more systemic issue.
I know a white woman from Tulsa who went to Yale. Her two sons make fun of her because they think the only reason she got in is because she was female and from Oklahoma. Yale needed to tick that box.
According to reports compiled by the White House, HBCU schools have “educated 40% of all Black engineers in the country, 50% of all Black lawyers, 70% of Black doctors, and an astonishing 80% of Black judges.”
These factors, and others, have helped increase students’ motivation to attend HBCUs.
For example, Howard received 37,000 applications in the past school year, which marks a 12% increase for its incoming freshman class. FAMU has seen its incoming applications nearly double in the past two years. As of June, FAMU—considered the top public HBCU—received an influx of 21,939 applications for the incoming freshman class and concluded its application season with an admissions rate of 18%.
A worry which I would have based on far less selective schools in the 1990s is that the Black kids will congregate in majors like sociology and education (even Janine Teagues on "Abbott Elementary" is portrayed as a Penn graduate and appears proud of it) and the Black kid who is supposed to represent diversity is simply not in the classroom for a significant portion of the students. Another related worry is that the Times promptly stated after the SFFA decision that there are not enough Black doctors as it is. Are these very elite schools really the institutions that are turning out Black doctors and other professionals that would be helpful to the Black community as a whole?
I am more or less quoting the NYT but there seem to be studies that being treated by a Black doctor has concrete positive health outcomes for Black patients. I can certainly say "Black people don't have enough access to doctors where they will get respectful treatment" including Black people who live in places where any hospital is far away
Someone may be able to answer this. If you take the "elite" schools (the 8 Ivies, 7 Sisters {which no one mentions}, MIT, CalTech, Stanford & Duke) as an example, I'm sure there's others, there is X number of open slots for freshman. How many would be available for the socio-economical "affirmative action? Would the many now rising number of Mixed race, Black, Hispanic, Asia-Pacific, Pacific Rim, Near & Middle Eastern children of wealthy Execs, Sports figures, Entertainment figures, Academics, Politicians of the same & who could afford the schools take up spaces leaving less available? Also add in legacy athlete students. Do they have the "contacts" through their parents. Does going to a less "elite school for undergrad, then an "elite" post-Grad make up for any "contact" gap? Is there a "gender affirmative action"? No agenda, just questions?
What a wonderful show. I hope some day I’ll be able to be as publicly honest as you two.
I'm here for the roast.
You let in the less qualified, now your complaint is people look at them as less qualified. Go figure.
My son, a "URM", went to MIT in the early teens. I confess I struggled with the fact that I *knew* his application would be viewed differently because of his skin color. Thus, despite a 1590 SAT, national awards in math, physics, and chess, radically accelerated coursework in math and physics (upper-division college-level work), physics research, and being an outstanding musician, baseball player, and all-around great person, affirmative action somehow diminishes his accomplishments. (He was admitted to all his colleges including several Ivies, and he certainly is an outlier in his accomplishments, but...) It's a conundrum.
I like John's comments: let's work on improving education when kids are younger. We opted to homeschool and I'm a strong supporter of school choice.
Using the metaphor of the abolitionist press, Garrison was almost an honorary Black person from the POV of Black abolitionists and said what a politically normative Black person would say, but newspapers such as Freedom's Journal and Douglass's various efforts were important in order to construct a Black public sphere. The work Black people do to construct Black identity and the Black public sphere will go on whether or not the university is interested in it but if the university has some claim to be universalistic the university may want to make space for that discourse instead of being simply somewhere where non-Black people talk about Blackness as a metaphor.
I also made sure to read the story about North Carolina where the Black freshman enrollment decreased about 2.8 percentage points. They could not explain it except by referring to the financial aid FUBAR but that is a deficit small enough that a local civil organization interested in steering talented in-state students to the university might be able to make it up. Being admitted to MIT depends on good STEM programs at the high school level which is a more systemic issue.
* civil rights organization and civil society organization both work
Total common sense. Glenn is not ready for the junkyard.
I know a white woman from Tulsa who went to Yale. Her two sons make fun of her because they think the only reason she got in is because she was female and from Oklahoma. Yale needed to tick that box.
According to reports compiled by the White House, HBCU schools have “educated 40% of all Black engineers in the country, 50% of all Black lawyers, 70% of Black doctors, and an astonishing 80% of Black judges.”
These factors, and others, have helped increase students’ motivation to attend HBCUs.
For example, Howard received 37,000 applications in the past school year, which marks a 12% increase for its incoming freshman class. FAMU has seen its incoming applications nearly double in the past two years. As of June, FAMU—considered the top public HBCU—received an influx of 21,939 applications for the incoming freshman class and concluded its application season with an admissions rate of 18%.
https://www.blackenterprise.com/hbcu-applications-surge/
A worry which I would have based on far less selective schools in the 1990s is that the Black kids will congregate in majors like sociology and education (even Janine Teagues on "Abbott Elementary" is portrayed as a Penn graduate and appears proud of it) and the Black kid who is supposed to represent diversity is simply not in the classroom for a significant portion of the students. Another related worry is that the Times promptly stated after the SFFA decision that there are not enough Black doctors as it is. Are these very elite schools really the institutions that are turning out Black doctors and other professionals that would be helpful to the Black community as a whole?
"Enough black doctors"? As if there is some number there "should" be? How about there aren't enough good doctors?
I am more or less quoting the NYT but there seem to be studies that being treated by a Black doctor has concrete positive health outcomes for Black patients. I can certainly say "Black people don't have enough access to doctors where they will get respectful treatment" including Black people who live in places where any hospital is far away