My guest this week is the producer and storyteller Stephanie Lepp, who leads the independent production studio Synthesis Media, and joins me today to talk about her new project, Faces of X. I met Stephanie through her husband, who did his undergraduate at Brown, and we’ve had a kind of intermittent public dialogue for years now. She was instrumental in helping me think through the early stages of my memoir. Now, I’m trying to help her think through her new initiative.
I think it is critically important to try to understand the facts and logic of everyone’s perspective. however I don’t think it’s healthy to accept untrue facts, or faulty logic.
Best example is the systemic racism is behind the police shooting
It’s not true
It doesn’t explain black deaths
What explains black deaths is primarily black on black crime, which is likely related to culture of native born blacks raised in very low, social economic environments. Not all, but some of these young people are raised with very poor values in role models.
One of the reasons black immigrants perform similar to whites compared relatively to native born blacks.
Personal story. Born in 1957 in Gary, Indiana living in one of the two primarily white areas. From kindergarten through third grade, we had voluntary integration where there were blacks coming to our school who were the children of teachers policeman etc and they were essentially just like everybody else. In fourth grade there was mandatory busing and all of the sudden there was a mix of lower social economic people joining the school. Whether they were white rednecks or Puerto Ricans or black, they disproportionally had different values and behaviors than the people that were there before.
Thank you both. I thoroughly enjoyed learning about this project and about Stefanie. I believe you both touched on it in a way but the thought that I kept having during the episode is whether the project and the approach resolve any issues engagement in the process can’t help but inhuman the opposition Which ever way we lean and no matter how hard we lean in that direction. And if we can accomplish that in any meaningful measure, we will ultimately solve the issues.
While I think I like what Stephanie is doing, I do share some reservations with Glenn. The critique of capitalism was really a critique of resource exploitation. We could have a discussion of "How big of a footprint should humans have on the planet?" as a separate topic. Then: "OK, given those constraints, what economic system best meets people's material desires" -- I think capitalism wins that hands down. A reasonable discussion of capitalism would compare it to other economic systems (socialism, perhaps a local autarky vs globalism, etc.)
I find this a common problem -- some media appears to be "fair and balanced" (to coin a phrase), but they don't really present both sides fairly.
I hope this is simply an oversight on Stephanie's part.
Congratulations to Stephanie Lepp, her project encourages 'critical-thinking' acuity at a undergraduate level. It informs people who naturally or innately feel emotionally drawn towards on side or other. Brilliant Glenn Loury, finds the 'emotional' perspective a fools erron. I say, so what? I generally believe as Glenn does, however, the opposing views still exists. I personally disagree with it, but there it is. The project from the left-leaning perspective will ultimately lose ground to a more conservative perspective. The slavery debate is incorrectly founded. American slavery is an African, from Africa, originated subject. The African-American perspective is only a small part of the whole slavery subject. The project loses credability with slavery.
Race. It was an idea created for the sole purpose of institutionalizing racism. It is anathema, and yet... Glenn quite rightly proclaims himself a Black Man. I have a good idea what that means even though I am not one. I was taught through experience.
Of all the Races being Black (descended from slaves) maybe the only one that actually makes sense in America. White is incoherent because it lacks any commanility of experience beyond the most vague. Asian is absurd since it suggest a common identity between groups that are vastly different in almost every way. But even being Black is highly nuanced, of course. It does not and cannot mean one thing, nor can it define a set of beliefs or values. It seems to me to be more like the soil in which one took root.
The problem with Race is when we use it to confer value, meaning, quality or trajectory on someone -- when it becomes an ideological trope rather than a collection of common yet complex experiences. Race as ideology must be extinguished no matter the purpose of it's invocation because it is inherently corrupting. Race in the sense of "Where we came from" is a true part of our story that is more important for some than for others but which must be heard, respected and recognized.
That's where I've come out on this after many years of careful thought. My thanks to Glenn and Stephanie for this very honest conversation.
The dynamics of this conversation interested me. Glenn, you seem like a great teacher: frank in your skepticism, but not at all unkind. And Stephanie, while you might not solve the world's most vexing problems, I think this project could be useful for educators. At a minimum, I could see using those clips as conversation starters in the classroom.
Thank you for all of the work you do Stephanie…I’m so sorry to try and listen to the beautiful work you do on a day when Glenn’s expertise as in an economist is so pressingly needed….I’m baffled and distracted and will come back at another time to hear your thoughts,. Glenn what in the name of erverything this current time is focusing on ….Kamala just laid out the most significant piece of economic policy we hoped you would focus on that you’ve done all of us including Stephanie a disservice. Again Stephanie we are all distracted by this significant breaking news…I hope you will come back.
When Lepp asked (paraphrasing) "how would you find race helpful?" as a way of probing. That presumes too much initially. I would prefer "how does race function?" That might lead us to what humans do in seeing others -- whether race, religion, sex, tribe, etc. In this approach, "race" wasn't invented, but simply is a functional way of differentiating groups. Choose your labels and shibboleths. We still have a human problem.
Mostly because Glenn makes steelmanning sound disingenuous..,.ultimately totally wishy washy no matter how much he raises his voice….it’s not having the intended effect. In fact the opposite
Glenn, have you or your fellow economists found a way to quantify the human costs of, for example, air or water pollution? Can levels of premature death be quantified? In your world, if it can't be quantified it doesn't exist.
I think it is critically important to try to understand the facts and logic of everyone’s perspective. however I don’t think it’s healthy to accept untrue facts, or faulty logic.
Best example is the systemic racism is behind the police shooting
It’s not true
It doesn’t explain black deaths
What explains black deaths is primarily black on black crime, which is likely related to culture of native born blacks raised in very low, social economic environments. Not all, but some of these young people are raised with very poor values in role models.
One of the reasons black immigrants perform similar to whites compared relatively to native born blacks.
Personal story. Born in 1957 in Gary, Indiana living in one of the two primarily white areas. From kindergarten through third grade, we had voluntary integration where there were blacks coming to our school who were the children of teachers policeman etc and they were essentially just like everybody else. In fourth grade there was mandatory busing and all of the sudden there was a mix of lower social economic people joining the school. Whether they were white rednecks or Puerto Ricans or black, they disproportionally had different values and behaviors than the people that were there before.
Thank you both. I thoroughly enjoyed learning about this project and about Stefanie. I believe you both touched on it in a way but the thought that I kept having during the episode is whether the project and the approach resolve any issues engagement in the process can’t help but inhuman the opposition Which ever way we lean and no matter how hard we lean in that direction. And if we can accomplish that in any meaningful measure, we will ultimately solve the issues.
While I think I like what Stephanie is doing, I do share some reservations with Glenn. The critique of capitalism was really a critique of resource exploitation. We could have a discussion of "How big of a footprint should humans have on the planet?" as a separate topic. Then: "OK, given those constraints, what economic system best meets people's material desires" -- I think capitalism wins that hands down. A reasonable discussion of capitalism would compare it to other economic systems (socialism, perhaps a local autarky vs globalism, etc.)
I find this a common problem -- some media appears to be "fair and balanced" (to coin a phrase), but they don't really present both sides fairly.
I hope this is simply an oversight on Stephanie's part.
Congratulations to Stephanie Lepp, her project encourages 'critical-thinking' acuity at a undergraduate level. It informs people who naturally or innately feel emotionally drawn towards on side or other. Brilliant Glenn Loury, finds the 'emotional' perspective a fools erron. I say, so what? I generally believe as Glenn does, however, the opposing views still exists. I personally disagree with it, but there it is. The project from the left-leaning perspective will ultimately lose ground to a more conservative perspective. The slavery debate is incorrectly founded. American slavery is an African, from Africa, originated subject. The African-American perspective is only a small part of the whole slavery subject. The project loses credability with slavery.
Race. It was an idea created for the sole purpose of institutionalizing racism. It is anathema, and yet... Glenn quite rightly proclaims himself a Black Man. I have a good idea what that means even though I am not one. I was taught through experience.
Of all the Races being Black (descended from slaves) maybe the only one that actually makes sense in America. White is incoherent because it lacks any commanility of experience beyond the most vague. Asian is absurd since it suggest a common identity between groups that are vastly different in almost every way. But even being Black is highly nuanced, of course. It does not and cannot mean one thing, nor can it define a set of beliefs or values. It seems to me to be more like the soil in which one took root.
The problem with Race is when we use it to confer value, meaning, quality or trajectory on someone -- when it becomes an ideological trope rather than a collection of common yet complex experiences. Race as ideology must be extinguished no matter the purpose of it's invocation because it is inherently corrupting. Race in the sense of "Where we came from" is a true part of our story that is more important for some than for others but which must be heard, respected and recognized.
That's where I've come out on this after many years of careful thought. My thanks to Glenn and Stephanie for this very honest conversation.
The dynamics of this conversation interested me. Glenn, you seem like a great teacher: frank in your skepticism, but not at all unkind. And Stephanie, while you might not solve the world's most vexing problems, I think this project could be useful for educators. At a minimum, I could see using those clips as conversation starters in the classroom.
Thank you for all of the work you do Stephanie…I’m so sorry to try and listen to the beautiful work you do on a day when Glenn’s expertise as in an economist is so pressingly needed….I’m baffled and distracted and will come back at another time to hear your thoughts,. Glenn what in the name of erverything this current time is focusing on ….Kamala just laid out the most significant piece of economic policy we hoped you would focus on that you’ve done all of us including Stephanie a disservice. Again Stephanie we are all distracted by this significant breaking news…I hope you will come back.
When Lepp asked (paraphrasing) "how would you find race helpful?" as a way of probing. That presumes too much initially. I would prefer "how does race function?" That might lead us to what humans do in seeing others -- whether race, religion, sex, tribe, etc. In this approach, "race" wasn't invented, but simply is a functional way of differentiating groups. Choose your labels and shibboleths. We still have a human problem.
One thing is I'm fairly sick of the term "steel man."
Mostly because Glenn makes steelmanning sound disingenuous..,.ultimately totally wishy washy no matter how much he raises his voice….it’s not having the intended effect. In fact the opposite
Glenn, have you or your fellow economists found a way to quantify the human costs of, for example, air or water pollution? Can levels of premature death be quantified? In your world, if it can't be quantified it doesn't exist.
I've read Jonah Goldberg. He has a good mind, but like many prognosticators, he can't find the line between fact and opinion.
Glenn's comment about conflating capitalism with modernity and history was great.