But as Glenn described in his paper at least the social media left does not live up to this promise of inclusivity because they are too busy evaluating possible allies' commitment by whether they used the right words.
If you believe Rick Perlstein about the 1970s there has been at least a center-left ever since then which defines itself by its culture war opponents/the right of white suburban voters to feel morally comfortable rather than any commitment to social/economic equality. These people might classify themselves as on the left today because they have an old-fashioned commitment to separation of church and state rather than any more recent identity politics.
Heather McGhee had a best-seller with "The Sum Of Us", which I did not read YET, trying to respond to what guest says here and arguing that everyone loses out when government does not provide public goods because Those People will get them. A more refined version of this which even Adolph Reed signed onto at one time is that people experience class inequality through the lens of race and if practical politics ignores race it will not get many of the people it wants to benefit involved.
Prof Loury, there is a wide berth between the Communist Left and Democratic Socialism. The trick you play - going right to Communism is getting really old and tired. Eye Rolling Territory.
We should try to move towards a colorblind society. Yes let's try really really really really hard. If it takes 200 years, 500 years, 10,000 years what the fuck as long as we give it that old college try by golly!!! No skin off my (white) potatoe goshdarnit!!!!
This is the viewpoint of the modern Conservative movement. Republicans will receive no pushback from the Right. Matt Johnson’s 200-500 year timeline appears to be correct. Let’s go colorblind while attacking people of color.
Read the document to get the truth. Why do you need someone else to twist and fabricate information? The endless lies from the media are astounding. It actually states, to paraphrase, some were able to use a skill to benefit themselves. That is an example of resiliency. Pg.6 SS.68.AA.2.3 https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf
Right. Those ungrateful slaves owe a debt of gratitude to be crammed into a slave ship like you cram underwear into a suitcase to be brought here to be sold as farm equipment. You shouldn't have to feel any discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress.
Nowhere in the standards does it state "debt of gratitude." It seems the thought of enslaved people having any agency and outwitting the slaveholders by developing "skills which, in some instances, could be
applied for their personal benefit" is an affront to the Progressive saviors today. The thought that many slaves became skilled tradesman who were able to eventually buy their way to freedom seems to cause gnashing of teeth from the saviors. K-12 is for teaching reading, writing, math, history, science, civics, etc. It is not for psychological manipulation as in pushing "discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress," which seems to be what you want the school day to be about.
As opposed to the subhumans they would have remained left to their own devices you think? Many more didn't even survive the journey. Not that they had a choice either way. That is the key fact that needs to be taught. Not your whitewashing bullshit.
I guess the survivors of the trip should have just sat down to die, waiting for the white savior to come along in time. What a nihilistic attitude. What whitewashing?
You are free to agree to your children taught nonsense. I’d be joining a class action lawsuit that the teaching breeches freedom of speech by being the official Florida position. Opposing views cannot be heard. The story of Rosa Parks can be told as a nice lady was told to move her seat. The nice lady refused. The nice lady was arrested. There is no context. That is not teaching history.
I want the first words out of the mouth of my child to be slavery is evil whether done by African, Muslim, or White Christian/Deist/Atheist. Do not sugarcoat the message. Biblically, an enslaver is condemned to death (Exodus 21:16). Corinthians 7:21 tells enslaved people to free themselves, if possible.
While other states abandon forced prison labor, Florida clings on to the practice under pressure from DeSantis. DeSantis leads an evil administration. It is sad that Florida’s children have to live under his tyranny.
No surprise you think teaching today's children that enslaved people used what agency they had to make their lives better is nonsense. You obviously haven't bothered to read the standards as there is plenty of context. Your attack on the teaching of the fact that many enslaved people used what agency they had reminds me of the hysterical and antagonistic I, a female, often receive from Progressives when I use my agency. They want me to sit tight and wait for them to ride in on their white horses. I've been screamed at by those types for politely declining their "help" too many times to count.
Don't Say Gay. Don't Say Don't Say Gay. Legalized vehicular homicide. Taxpayer funded private militia. Quack surgeon general Ladapo. Trump is an Insane Clown. DeSatan is just Insane.
Conservatives pretend that none of this is happening on their side of the aisle. Instead we are told there is a deep thinker on the Conservative side who should be interviewed by Glenn to make th Left quake in their boots. Many on the Left say “bring it on”. We are still laughing at the rebuke Charles Murray received for misinterpreting studies quoted in the “Bell Curve”
One observes an Alabama legislature made up by Republicans defying a court order by refusing to create a second Black district. One looks at the hostility of the Republican-led department of education. You ask yourself why you would want to be in a political party with any of these people.
Off topic:
I don't know if it is an academia thing, but I haven’t heard major defenses of Robin DiAngelo or Ibrim. Kendi from the Black Left. It probably happens, but they aren’t sources I hear mentioned in serious discussions. Were they mentioned in arguments about the SCOTUS Affirmative Action case?
There was supposed to be a red wave in the midterms, but the GOP barely squeaked out a House majority. It took what, 15 ballots for McCarthy to be a puppet Speaker? The Right opposes abortion, but the issue wins when put on ballots. Even the Conservatives on SCOTUS opined the Alabama attempt to suppress Black votes was an overreach. Mississippi Republicans are setting up a “special” court system for a majority Black community. The leading Republican Presidential candidate has multiple cases going. Republican legislators are taking credit for a construction bill they opposed. Two Republican women are name-calling each other on the House floor and the Left is in trouble?
Republicans labeled other Republicans RINOs for years and the Left has a problem?. Liz Cheney was kicked out of the GOP. MTG was kicked out of the Freedom Caucus. Both women veered from the Trump cult and the Left has a problem. I needed some humor. Thanks.
Edit to add:
The leading Republican Presidential contender has been told he is a target of the January 6th investigation.
16 fake Republican sanctioned electors in Michigan have been indicted
Today's Democrats are not the Left. Today's Democrats are Reactionaries.
Today's Democrats oppose the radical ideal of free speech. They fully support social media efforts to silence dissenting voices-both conservative and liberal.
Today's reactionary Democrats genuflect to the FBI and the rest of the security state, challenging anyone who questions their actions. They see no problem with the FBI asking Twitter to shut down American voices at Ukraine's request.
Today's reactionary Democrats are for endless war in Ukraine; anyone who even asks if there is an offramp is called a Putin stooge.
Today's reactionary Democrats support the President being able to void hundreds of billions in debt on a whim. Democrats support this executive fiat despite the fact that both the House and Senate voted that the President could not unilaterally forgive this debt.
Today's reactionary Democrats oppose removing the issue of abortion from the unelected Courts to the elected legislatures.
One of today's reactionary Democrats has publicly threatened a reporter with jail time for not revealing his sources.
Today's reactionary Democrats see parents at school boards or traditionalist Catholics in their churches as real threats.
Today's Democrats are pro endless war, anti first amendment, and anti fourth amendment. They want to concentrate power in the executive branch in DC. They want to move power from the states to the Federal government and from Congress to the President.
That isn't the Left by anyone's definition. That's Glenn and Matt's point-the Left is spent as a political force in America. Anyone who mistakes Democrats for the modern left is completely misreading the situation.
Agreed. There was an actual person named Mother Jones who lived in West Virginia and was involved in organizing the labor movement there, which was an extreme and sometimes violent conflict, in which the labor side included dyed in the wool Appalachians as well as many African Americans and European immigrants. That was the left. What does today’s Democratic party think of Appalachian coal miners? What does the magazine ludicrously named after Mother Jones write about those sorts of people? Those people are still the left, but they’re Trump voters now.
You will have to help me out here. One argument made by Johnson is that the Left is obsessed with identity politics. There was a reference to Bernie Sanders catching heat for rejecting identity politics. As I recall, the heat came from Democrats, not some amorphous non-voting thing called the Left. In November 2016 an oft-quoted article “The End of Identity Liberalism” appeared in the NYT. Those accused of playing identity politics were Democrats.
Seeing that Democrats attacked Sanders for rejecting identity politics and Mark Lilla criticized Democrats for playing identity politics, I thought Democrats were Johnson’s targets. Can you please identify the non-Democrats that Johnson is talking about who practice identity politics?
In my mental map of the world, there are amorphous but relatively fixed ideologies. Political parties move around on this ideological spectrum in an attempt to gain votes. The underlying ideologies do not change much, but how each party maps to this ideological spectrum varies greatly over time.
Thus, "Democrat" and "Left" are not synonymous. As I stated above, today's Democrats are not of the Left-they are Reactionaries.
Bernie's situation illustrates what I am talking about. As Matt (and Hitch) argue, identitarianism is not a Leftist value. Bernie is a Leftist. He literally is not a Democrat. Bernie espoused an anti-identitarian position that generations of Leftists have supported. Democrats attacked him, but the attacks were not from the Left. They also weren't from the Right; they were from a retrograde ethos on some other axis.
And, again, that is the point: there is no contemporary American Left. Just posers like AOC.
Matt Johnson said the Left practices identity politics. Your argument is that there is no Left that practices identity politics. You need to take your argument to Matt Johnson and Matt Lilla.
Didn’t Obama talk about tribalism? He seemed to refer to white subcultures. His version was clearly different from the version discussed here. There’s a need for clarity on this point.
But as Glenn described in his paper at least the social media left does not live up to this promise of inclusivity because they are too busy evaluating possible allies' commitment by whether they used the right words.
If you believe Rick Perlstein about the 1970s there has been at least a center-left ever since then which defines itself by its culture war opponents/the right of white suburban voters to feel morally comfortable rather than any commitment to social/economic equality. These people might classify themselves as on the left today because they have an old-fashioned commitment to separation of church and state rather than any more recent identity politics.
Heather McGhee had a best-seller with "The Sum Of Us", which I did not read YET, trying to respond to what guest says here and arguing that everyone loses out when government does not provide public goods because Those People will get them. A more refined version of this which even Adolph Reed signed onto at one time is that people experience class inequality through the lens of race and if practical politics ignores race it will not get many of the people it wants to benefit involved.
Prof Loury, there is a wide berth between the Communist Left and Democratic Socialism. The trick you play - going right to Communism is getting really old and tired. Eye Rolling Territory.
Great piece!
We should try to move towards a colorblind society. Yes let's try really really really really hard. If it takes 200 years, 500 years, 10,000 years what the fuck as long as we give it that old college try by golly!!! No skin off my (white) potatoe goshdarnit!!!!
Florida approves teaching that Blacks benefitted from slavery because many learned a skill.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/florida-schools-will-teach-how-slavery-brought-personal-benefit-to-black-people
This is the viewpoint of the modern Conservative movement. Republicans will receive no pushback from the Right. Matt Johnson’s 200-500 year timeline appears to be correct. Let’s go colorblind while attacking people of color.
Read the document to get the truth. Why do you need someone else to twist and fabricate information? The endless lies from the media are astounding. It actually states, to paraphrase, some were able to use a skill to benefit themselves. That is an example of resiliency. Pg.6 SS.68.AA.2.3 https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf
Right. Those ungrateful slaves owe a debt of gratitude to be crammed into a slave ship like you cram underwear into a suitcase to be brought here to be sold as farm equipment. You shouldn't have to feel any discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress.
I forgot to ask, are you implying I should be feeling discomfort, guilt, anguish and psychological distress?
You should. For being a Nazi bitch.
Nowhere in the standards does it state "debt of gratitude." It seems the thought of enslaved people having any agency and outwitting the slaveholders by developing "skills which, in some instances, could be
applied for their personal benefit" is an affront to the Progressive saviors today. The thought that many slaves became skilled tradesman who were able to eventually buy their way to freedom seems to cause gnashing of teeth from the saviors. K-12 is for teaching reading, writing, math, history, science, civics, etc. It is not for psychological manipulation as in pushing "discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress," which seems to be what you want the school day to be about.
As opposed to the subhumans they would have remained left to their own devices you think? Many more didn't even survive the journey. Not that they had a choice either way. That is the key fact that needs to be taught. Not your whitewashing bullshit.
I've actually indirectly benefitted from (former) slaves learning trades.
I guess the survivors of the trip should have just sat down to die, waiting for the white savior to come along in time. What a nihilistic attitude. What whitewashing?
You are free to agree to your children taught nonsense. I’d be joining a class action lawsuit that the teaching breeches freedom of speech by being the official Florida position. Opposing views cannot be heard. The story of Rosa Parks can be told as a nice lady was told to move her seat. The nice lady refused. The nice lady was arrested. There is no context. That is not teaching history.
I want the first words out of the mouth of my child to be slavery is evil whether done by African, Muslim, or White Christian/Deist/Atheist. Do not sugarcoat the message. Biblically, an enslaver is condemned to death (Exodus 21:16). Corinthians 7:21 tells enslaved people to free themselves, if possible.
While other states abandon forced prison labor, Florida clings on to the practice under pressure from DeSantis. DeSantis leads an evil administration. It is sad that Florida’s children have to live under his tyranny.
The evil is not Progressive, it is Conservative.
No surprise you think teaching today's children that enslaved people used what agency they had to make their lives better is nonsense. You obviously haven't bothered to read the standards as there is plenty of context. Your attack on the teaching of the fact that many enslaved people used what agency they had reminds me of the hysterical and antagonistic I, a female, often receive from Progressives when I use my agency. They want me to sit tight and wait for them to ride in on their white horses. I've been screamed at by those types for politely declining their "help" too many times to count.
Don't Say Gay. Don't Say Don't Say Gay. Legalized vehicular homicide. Taxpayer funded private militia. Quack surgeon general Ladapo. Trump is an Insane Clown. DeSatan is just Insane.
Conservatives pretend that none of this is happening on their side of the aisle. Instead we are told there is a deep thinker on the Conservative side who should be interviewed by Glenn to make th Left quake in their boots. Many on the Left say “bring it on”. We are still laughing at the rebuke Charles Murray received for misinterpreting studies quoted in the “Bell Curve”
One observes an Alabama legislature made up by Republicans defying a court order by refusing to create a second Black district. One looks at the hostility of the Republican-led department of education. You ask yourself why you would want to be in a political party with any of these people.
Off topic:
I don't know if it is an academia thing, but I haven’t heard major defenses of Robin DiAngelo or Ibrim. Kendi from the Black Left. It probably happens, but they aren’t sources I hear mentioned in serious discussions. Were they mentioned in arguments about the SCOTUS Affirmative Action case?
This kind of content is why I bought stock in Substack...more of this please...
Ask Hitchens, what is a woman?
His answer would have been simple, and YouTube definitely would have banned it.
You impersonating one. 🤡🤡🤡
The Left is in trouble?
There was supposed to be a red wave in the midterms, but the GOP barely squeaked out a House majority. It took what, 15 ballots for McCarthy to be a puppet Speaker? The Right opposes abortion, but the issue wins when put on ballots. Even the Conservatives on SCOTUS opined the Alabama attempt to suppress Black votes was an overreach. Mississippi Republicans are setting up a “special” court system for a majority Black community. The leading Republican Presidential candidate has multiple cases going. Republican legislators are taking credit for a construction bill they opposed. Two Republican women are name-calling each other on the House floor and the Left is in trouble?
Republicans labeled other Republicans RINOs for years and the Left has a problem?. Liz Cheney was kicked out of the GOP. MTG was kicked out of the Freedom Caucus. Both women veered from the Trump cult and the Left has a problem. I needed some humor. Thanks.
Edit to add:
The leading Republican Presidential contender has been told he is a target of the January 6th investigation.
16 fake Republican sanctioned electors in Michigan have been indicted
Robert-
Today's Democrats are not the Left. Today's Democrats are Reactionaries.
Today's Democrats oppose the radical ideal of free speech. They fully support social media efforts to silence dissenting voices-both conservative and liberal.
Today's reactionary Democrats genuflect to the FBI and the rest of the security state, challenging anyone who questions their actions. They see no problem with the FBI asking Twitter to shut down American voices at Ukraine's request.
Today's reactionary Democrats are for endless war in Ukraine; anyone who even asks if there is an offramp is called a Putin stooge.
Today's reactionary Democrats support the President being able to void hundreds of billions in debt on a whim. Democrats support this executive fiat despite the fact that both the House and Senate voted that the President could not unilaterally forgive this debt.
Today's reactionary Democrats oppose removing the issue of abortion from the unelected Courts to the elected legislatures.
One of today's reactionary Democrats has publicly threatened a reporter with jail time for not revealing his sources.
Today's reactionary Democrats see parents at school boards or traditionalist Catholics in their churches as real threats.
Today's Democrats are pro endless war, anti first amendment, and anti fourth amendment. They want to concentrate power in the executive branch in DC. They want to move power from the states to the Federal government and from Congress to the President.
That isn't the Left by anyone's definition. That's Glenn and Matt's point-the Left is spent as a political force in America. Anyone who mistakes Democrats for the modern left is completely misreading the situation.
Agreed. There was an actual person named Mother Jones who lived in West Virginia and was involved in organizing the labor movement there, which was an extreme and sometimes violent conflict, in which the labor side included dyed in the wool Appalachians as well as many African Americans and European immigrants. That was the left. What does today’s Democratic party think of Appalachian coal miners? What does the magazine ludicrously named after Mother Jones write about those sorts of people? Those people are still the left, but they’re Trump voters now.
You will have to help me out here. One argument made by Johnson is that the Left is obsessed with identity politics. There was a reference to Bernie Sanders catching heat for rejecting identity politics. As I recall, the heat came from Democrats, not some amorphous non-voting thing called the Left. In November 2016 an oft-quoted article “The End of Identity Liberalism” appeared in the NYT. Those accused of playing identity politics were Democrats.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-liberalism.html
Seeing that Democrats attacked Sanders for rejecting identity politics and Mark Lilla criticized Democrats for playing identity politics, I thought Democrats were Johnson’s targets. Can you please identify the non-Democrats that Johnson is talking about who practice identity politics?
Robert-
In my mental map of the world, there are amorphous but relatively fixed ideologies. Political parties move around on this ideological spectrum in an attempt to gain votes. The underlying ideologies do not change much, but how each party maps to this ideological spectrum varies greatly over time.
Thus, "Democrat" and "Left" are not synonymous. As I stated above, today's Democrats are not of the Left-they are Reactionaries.
Bernie's situation illustrates what I am talking about. As Matt (and Hitch) argue, identitarianism is not a Leftist value. Bernie is a Leftist. He literally is not a Democrat. Bernie espoused an anti-identitarian position that generations of Leftists have supported. Democrats attacked him, but the attacks were not from the Left. They also weren't from the Right; they were from a retrograde ethos on some other axis.
And, again, that is the point: there is no contemporary American Left. Just posers like AOC.
Matt Johnson said the Left practices identity politics. Your argument is that there is no Left that practices identity politics. You need to take your argument to Matt Johnson and Matt Lilla.
Didn’t Obama talk about tribalism? He seemed to refer to white subcultures. His version was clearly different from the version discussed here. There’s a need for clarity on this point.