This comment is not related to this episode, it is a podcast guest suggestion.
Please have Logan Lancing on your podcast. I think he can shine a light on a lot of the craziness we are experiencing in America. And may give us an understanding of where Kamala Harris is coming from and where we may be going if she is elected.
Here is a link to an episode of his podcast that makes sense of the phrase “ unburdened from what has been” and what “woke” really means.
The question “under what circumstances, if any, is race a useful idea?”’is a powerful one and a real conversation starter. I wish you hadn’t dismissed it, Glenn. It will help you understand why it isn’t magical thinking to believe that it can be undone. Stupidity after all, is doing the same thing while expecting different results. And you don’t have to throw away your culture or deny history to do it.
Congratulations to Stephanie Lepp, her project encourages 'critical-thinking' acuity at a undergraduate level. It informs people who naturally or innately feel emotionally drawn towards on side or other. Brilliant Glenn Loury, finds the 'emotional' perspective a fools erron. I say, so what? I still believe as Glenn does, that opposing views exist. The project from the left-leaning perspective will ultimately lose ground to a more conservative perspective. This usually happens with maturity. The project slavery debate is incorrectly founded. American slavery is an African, from Africa, originated subject. The African-American perspective is only a small part of the whole black slavery industry. Black slaves was the export product of BLACK AFRICAN LEADERS. They were, inter alia, sold to Arab dealers in Zanzibar. The east coast of Africa. This trade contined for hundreds off years and the Great Zimbabwe Ruins speaks to the zenith and downfall. Farrokh Bulsara, a.k.a Freddie Mercury was from Zanzibar. Zanzibar Arabs bought and sold an estimated eighteen million black slaves. Most slaves were castrated. 'The project ' loses credability, if it does not adequately found the extent of the debate. African-Americans would be well advised to digest the whole truth about world slavery, especially African leadership culpability. Maybe a degree of informed introspection would be wise when discussing the US caucasion role in the liberation and current circunstances of African-Americans. Maybe it is time to drop the 'African' moniker and reject the mentality of victimhood. FGS just be American!
I am profoundly tired of the whole race thing. Now I admit I am an old fart and remember the civil rights effort - which my parents and my father's parents were heavily involved in (I was in school at the time) . But I work in tech and lived in neighborhoods with very high levels of educated immigrants. There are a lot of South Indian immigrants who are a lot darker than many 'black' US born individuals. And some of the African immigrants make many 'black" Americans look 'white' in comparison. My niece's husband is more Mexican than black, and my sub-sarahan ancestor is 10 generations back (says 23 and me, along with a bunch remote admixtures), so my preferred description of my ancestry is American mongrel, although I am well with the population physical norm for Norway.
We are rapidly heading into a more mixed environment, with the Asian subpopulation mixing with the 'white' population particularily rapidly.
Class / education is increasingly a much more valuable classifier.
But Glenn, no one -- quite literally -- is saying, "Call the whole thing off" (re: Race). No one is saying, "close the door on the idea of race, always and forever." No one out here is "devoting themselves to the project of, let's get rid of race." These are chimeric monsters you envision....and the horrific things you imagine they would do are, indeed, imaginary.
You say, pointing to your skin, "This is superficial. I understand that this is superficial." And you are right. But you are equally right when you note that "Foundational history, culture, and lived experience have been grounded on this"... superficial thing. Of course they have.
This is not news.
History is filled to overflowing with examples of countless lived experiences, cultural events, battles, massacres, and the destruction (or elevation) of entire nations which have been grounded on any number of entirely superficial things. Except, of course, these countless superficialities did not seem so superficial at the time.
Imagine the casual, never-go-to-temple, entirely 'superficial' Jew, living in Berlin, in the 30's. I'm sure, for a while there he thought, 'They -- the Nazi's -- can't be serious. I barely even consider myself Jewish. I married a Protestant. I raised my kids Protestant. Judaism doesn't matter to me. Surely my entirely negligible 'Jewishness' will not matter if there are Pogroms?!" He was wrong, of course.
So yes, skin color is a superficiality. And yes, superficialities have -- historically -- triggered, caused, shaped a universe of experiences, good & bad. No one would deny that; no one should deny either.
But -- and of course there's a 'but' -- given the superficiality of skin tone (a superficiality we all agree upon), the way to begin to reduce it to its essential triviality is to, as John Roberts might say, reduce it! But reducing it, recognizing the superficiality of it//// that's not saying we seek to eliminate race or refuse to recognize the role its historically played for both the world, and for us as individuals. It's saying we don't want it to play that role NOW, today...going forward. We don't want it to be a part of admissions decisions. We don't want it to be a part of house buying decisions or car selling decisions or salary decisions or promotion decisions.
In truth we really don't want it to be a reason -- as superficial as it truly is -- to do much of anything.
This comment is not related to this episode, it is a podcast guest suggestion.
Please have Logan Lancing on your podcast. I think he can shine a light on a lot of the craziness we are experiencing in America. And may give us an understanding of where Kamala Harris is coming from and where we may be going if she is elected.
Here is a link to an episode of his podcast that makes sense of the phrase “ unburdened from what has been” and what “woke” really means.
https://youtu.be/cm6W2sn2WHA?si=NY-dsdHPhu9zzEci
His book is called The Queering of the American Child.
https://www.itsnotinschools.com/
The question “under what circumstances, if any, is race a useful idea?”’is a powerful one and a real conversation starter. I wish you hadn’t dismissed it, Glenn. It will help you understand why it isn’t magical thinking to believe that it can be undone. Stupidity after all, is doing the same thing while expecting different results. And you don’t have to throw away your culture or deny history to do it.
Open up and give it a real try.
Congratulations to Stephanie Lepp, her project encourages 'critical-thinking' acuity at a undergraduate level. It informs people who naturally or innately feel emotionally drawn towards on side or other. Brilliant Glenn Loury, finds the 'emotional' perspective a fools erron. I say, so what? I still believe as Glenn does, that opposing views exist. The project from the left-leaning perspective will ultimately lose ground to a more conservative perspective. This usually happens with maturity. The project slavery debate is incorrectly founded. American slavery is an African, from Africa, originated subject. The African-American perspective is only a small part of the whole black slavery industry. Black slaves was the export product of BLACK AFRICAN LEADERS. They were, inter alia, sold to Arab dealers in Zanzibar. The east coast of Africa. This trade contined for hundreds off years and the Great Zimbabwe Ruins speaks to the zenith and downfall. Farrokh Bulsara, a.k.a Freddie Mercury was from Zanzibar. Zanzibar Arabs bought and sold an estimated eighteen million black slaves. Most slaves were castrated. 'The project ' loses credability, if it does not adequately found the extent of the debate. African-Americans would be well advised to digest the whole truth about world slavery, especially African leadership culpability. Maybe a degree of informed introspection would be wise when discussing the US caucasion role in the liberation and current circunstances of African-Americans. Maybe it is time to drop the 'African' moniker and reject the mentality of victimhood. FGS just be American!
I am profoundly tired of the whole race thing. Now I admit I am an old fart and remember the civil rights effort - which my parents and my father's parents were heavily involved in (I was in school at the time) . But I work in tech and lived in neighborhoods with very high levels of educated immigrants. There are a lot of South Indian immigrants who are a lot darker than many 'black' US born individuals. And some of the African immigrants make many 'black" Americans look 'white' in comparison. My niece's husband is more Mexican than black, and my sub-sarahan ancestor is 10 generations back (says 23 and me, along with a bunch remote admixtures), so my preferred description of my ancestry is American mongrel, although I am well with the population physical norm for Norway.
We are rapidly heading into a more mixed environment, with the Asian subpopulation mixing with the 'white' population particularily rapidly.
Class / education is increasingly a much more valuable classifier.
"Profoundly tired of the whole race thing."
Completely & absolutely correct.
The real question might be: who isn't?
There is way too much money to keep the race thing going. Especially now that we're about to have a de facto 1 party system.
Millions of jobs depend on it.
If we didn't have the race thing, blacks would have to compete on an even playing field, and that is never going to happen.
But Glenn, no one -- quite literally -- is saying, "Call the whole thing off" (re: Race). No one is saying, "close the door on the idea of race, always and forever." No one out here is "devoting themselves to the project of, let's get rid of race." These are chimeric monsters you envision....and the horrific things you imagine they would do are, indeed, imaginary.
You say, pointing to your skin, "This is superficial. I understand that this is superficial." And you are right. But you are equally right when you note that "Foundational history, culture, and lived experience have been grounded on this"... superficial thing. Of course they have.
This is not news.
History is filled to overflowing with examples of countless lived experiences, cultural events, battles, massacres, and the destruction (or elevation) of entire nations which have been grounded on any number of entirely superficial things. Except, of course, these countless superficialities did not seem so superficial at the time.
Imagine the casual, never-go-to-temple, entirely 'superficial' Jew, living in Berlin, in the 30's. I'm sure, for a while there he thought, 'They -- the Nazi's -- can't be serious. I barely even consider myself Jewish. I married a Protestant. I raised my kids Protestant. Judaism doesn't matter to me. Surely my entirely negligible 'Jewishness' will not matter if there are Pogroms?!" He was wrong, of course.
So yes, skin color is a superficiality. And yes, superficialities have -- historically -- triggered, caused, shaped a universe of experiences, good & bad. No one would deny that; no one should deny either.
But -- and of course there's a 'but' -- given the superficiality of skin tone (a superficiality we all agree upon), the way to begin to reduce it to its essential triviality is to, as John Roberts might say, reduce it! But reducing it, recognizing the superficiality of it//// that's not saying we seek to eliminate race or refuse to recognize the role its historically played for both the world, and for us as individuals. It's saying we don't want it to play that role NOW, today...going forward. We don't want it to be a part of admissions decisions. We don't want it to be a part of house buying decisions or car selling decisions or salary decisions or promotion decisions.
In truth we really don't want it to be a reason -- as superficial as it truly is -- to do much of anything.
Please invite Dr. Sheena Mason to your show, Glenn! Continue the conversation-don’t stop now!