You might be interested to know, Glenn, that according to Gallup African Americans were the one demographic disproportionately interested in the new lifestyle I explore on my substack, with six in ten saying they would definitely or probably like to live this new way, and another twenty-percent leaving the door open to the possibility. Nor do I think this is an accident: compared to the way we live now, the new way of life I am proposing is much closer to the environment of our evolutionary adaptation, to which African Americans are, for historical reasons, better adapted than other groups. https://lukelea.substack.com/p/a-place-for-everyone
Reader Li-lien wrote in via email with the following comment. Posting here at Glenn's request and with the author's permission.
Dear Prof. Loury,
I am a fan of yours and I truly appreciate your explanation and analysis of the racial problems in our society. I want to pick on your statement "these communities (troubled black communities) are not "them". They are us." , though. From my experiences, I think this cuts both ways. "They" don't want to be "us" and "we" don't want to be "them". I am talking about a sub-culture that refuses to go by "our" rules. I saw first hand how they settled problems among themselves: armed car jack, burning "enemy"'s car in broad daylight, robbing their own party goers; I don't want to have anything to do with "them" because I fear what might happen to me if I somehow get them upset. Do you get the picture?
You are among the high society and I live among the middle-to-low communities. While people in the higher circle can say all day about what the elites and government and us ordinary people can do to help the poor communities, those of us affected by "them" daily wish only one thing: law and order. If "they" are willing to go by the same law and order "we" go by, there would not be "them" and "us". That, of course, is a complex problem. And a problem that takes courage and sacrifice and political risk to address. So no one does.
Empathy for the young black men who shoot each other on weekends in some cities is possible for me because I have known the families of a few such young men. When they were little boys they lived with single parents who did not have the time or the inclination to help them succeed at school. None of these boys learned to read as young grade school children and they fell behind in school. There were years during their childhoods when these boys seemed to respond to adults who showed an interest in them, and would admit how bad they about falling, and I think if they had had enough individual attention at that point they might have been okay. I am not sure, though, because the pull from their peer groups in their neighborhoods counteracted their parents' efforts to keep them away from delinquent behavior. All of these boys gave up on trying to succeed in school by their mid-teens, and they looked for other ways of feeling grown up and manly.
It was heartbreaking to watch the destruction of these children's lives, knowing it was so unnecessary and so wrong. It was also very frustrating and sad to watch some of adult family members of these boys struggle to try to help them, only to be blocked by other family members, or simply be unable to compete with the lure of neighborhood gangs. Every child deserves to be given the support he needs to learn to read, reach learning goals at school, and have a chance at a long, rewarding adult life.
your message to conservatives (such as I) is spot on. But as a policy wonk, what would you recommend to conservatives in power? what should the polity do about the underclass of all races? How can we make this better? in the past you have recommended more social relationships across race/class lines; your colleague Roland Fryer has recommended that the ivies start high schools in inner cities. are there other concrete policy steps?
Always a great interview with Tyler Cowen. I hope Mr. Loury doesn't mind me posting this clip from the full interview. It is one of the most powerful clips of any interview. It's on mortality. I have recently been reading the correspondence between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Adams discusses it. As did his son John Quincy in his diaries. I'll add Mr. Loury's comments to that pantheon. Worth the view. https://youtu.be/p_8tdVSTf8Q?si=fnECKSL6I2mr0Uyw&t=3490
It isn't only the black communities that are failing. I think it was Julius Wilson who pointed out that the lack of jobs caused community failure. But in addition to factories leaving the cities, the passage of the civil rights act and the associated changes in real estate and the job market allowed the successful blacks to abandon difficult communities for communities with lower crime and better schools. Between automation, globalization, and economic changes, the lower density communities in the US have been experiencing the same effects for the past generation, with jobs and the more talented and skilled workers leaving. The lower density communities are on the same track as the inner city, just two generations behind. But getting investment (either in cities or lower density areas) is far harder than before - factories don't need all that much unskilled labor, and the skilled labor (of all races) are abandoning the impacted communities. And without the example of the successful individuals and families, youth are far less likely to transition to a productive and successful life.
A reasonable success path would be
High School - Military Service - Police / firefighter
Which is pretty much what both my son-in-law and his father from rural Utah did.
This is great. I think many of your readers know that the majority of Black people are middle-class and there are plenty of neighborhoods where the mayhem does not exist.
But let me take one example. Chicago's Mayor Johnson, I believe, cancelled a contract for something called "shot spotter".......a frequency device that through high frequency would alert police where shootings were taking place real time. The Mayor cancelled the contract (but only after the Democratic Convention). Apparently the frequencies were anti-Kendi and anti-equity because again and again the racist frequencies pointed to minority areas.
So the means are there, but the ideology and will among progressives, not just right-wingers, is lacking.
Tyler Cowen is one of the best interviewers around besides being a noted economist in his own right. And Mr. Loury deserves to be interviewed by one of the best. I hope it doesn't take long for viewers of the Glenn Show to see how Mr. Cowen (again, an economist) knows how to ask a short, simple, very good question and then get out of the way for the real expert to answer. More "journalists" should take note of his style.
Malcolm X was right about two things: 1. The “political immaturity” of black America 2. The inability of blacks (as a whole, or political body) to understand that gratuitousness and flattery from the establishment is actually a source of great harm not good.
Take for example the prevalence of slavery talk. I can’t think of a greater source of political *disenfranchisement than to tell a community that A) its problems go back to before electricity, B) none of the existing leaders they elect can overcome these forces. Okay so why vote?
And just look at the state of entertainment. These communities have been so failed by shit 60’s leadership/bureacracy that they create fiction and entertainment (e.g., Wakanda Forever) to keep black morale up. Instead of *actual achievement and results.
The inevitability of woke was that goodwill on race issues would eventually run out. Precisely as the consequences of woke policies drive black America further into the ground.
Only political maturity can fix this. Nothing else I can do until this maturity is realized.
But I will say this: whites need to look at signal vs. noise. When a community has been voting unanimously Democrat for 60 years, the language and framework for expressing their discontent will be framed in Democrat terms. Many whites hear increasing race rhetoric as a threat, but it’s more an internal dialogue that fails to be better articulated. Just give it time and still treat people with respect.
People who blame blacks for the ‘anti-social’ or ‘disfunction’ of Omar, don’t understand what has been done to the black family, and black church, by the welfare state and waves of capitalist exploitation. Slavery and liberation from it, was a unique historical event, that made the free black Americans farmers into a people, a new nation, after the civil war. This is just as it did with the Jews. Then came 40 years of dessert wandering and centuries of war.
Can I call your wife Omar and comment on your take on Omar's reply to you? IMHO, most of all that Omar espouses is due to government interference, both federal and at state level. What is happening in our society today can be traced to the War on Poverty. 22% out of wedlock births before the WoP to 77% today. Gee, what could go wrong with that? I just wish you and those of your ilk (and I'm not talking about your skin color) would talk about that and discuss a program on how to get away from the WoP debacle.
On a side note, has Omar actually read any of Thomas Sowell? He has addressed all of Omar's concerns in his writings.
And lastly, how about you and John discuss Thomas Sowell. I would like to hear any criticism either you have about his writings.
You might be interested to know, Glenn, that according to Gallup African Americans were the one demographic disproportionately interested in the new lifestyle I explore on my substack, with six in ten saying they would definitely or probably like to live this new way, and another twenty-percent leaving the door open to the possibility. Nor do I think this is an accident: compared to the way we live now, the new way of life I am proposing is much closer to the environment of our evolutionary adaptation, to which African Americans are, for historical reasons, better adapted than other groups. https://lukelea.substack.com/p/a-place-for-everyone
Reader Li-lien wrote in via email with the following comment. Posting here at Glenn's request and with the author's permission.
Dear Prof. Loury,
I am a fan of yours and I truly appreciate your explanation and analysis of the racial problems in our society. I want to pick on your statement "these communities (troubled black communities) are not "them". They are us." , though. From my experiences, I think this cuts both ways. "They" don't want to be "us" and "we" don't want to be "them". I am talking about a sub-culture that refuses to go by "our" rules. I saw first hand how they settled problems among themselves: armed car jack, burning "enemy"'s car in broad daylight, robbing their own party goers; I don't want to have anything to do with "them" because I fear what might happen to me if I somehow get them upset. Do you get the picture?
You are among the high society and I live among the middle-to-low communities. While people in the higher circle can say all day about what the elites and government and us ordinary people can do to help the poor communities, those of us affected by "them" daily wish only one thing: law and order. If "they" are willing to go by the same law and order "we" go by, there would not be "them" and "us". That, of course, is a complex problem. And a problem that takes courage and sacrifice and political risk to address. So no one does.
Respectfully,
Li-lien
Empathy for the young black men who shoot each other on weekends in some cities is possible for me because I have known the families of a few such young men. When they were little boys they lived with single parents who did not have the time or the inclination to help them succeed at school. None of these boys learned to read as young grade school children and they fell behind in school. There were years during their childhoods when these boys seemed to respond to adults who showed an interest in them, and would admit how bad they about falling, and I think if they had had enough individual attention at that point they might have been okay. I am not sure, though, because the pull from their peer groups in their neighborhoods counteracted their parents' efforts to keep them away from delinquent behavior. All of these boys gave up on trying to succeed in school by their mid-teens, and they looked for other ways of feeling grown up and manly.
It was heartbreaking to watch the destruction of these children's lives, knowing it was so unnecessary and so wrong. It was also very frustrating and sad to watch some of adult family members of these boys struggle to try to help them, only to be blocked by other family members, or simply be unable to compete with the lure of neighborhood gangs. Every child deserves to be given the support he needs to learn to read, reach learning goals at school, and have a chance at a long, rewarding adult life.
"Thats the last chapter of the memoir"?! Com' on man! lol
The country has worked for so many people and continues to do so. Why hasn't it worked for Omar? Why burn the place down for Omar?
Great interview, Glenn, your perspective is unequaled in today's media.
HI Glenn,
your message to conservatives (such as I) is spot on. But as a policy wonk, what would you recommend to conservatives in power? what should the polity do about the underclass of all races? How can we make this better? in the past you have recommended more social relationships across race/class lines; your colleague Roland Fryer has recommended that the ivies start high schools in inner cities. are there other concrete policy steps?
Always a great interview with Tyler Cowen. I hope Mr. Loury doesn't mind me posting this clip from the full interview. It is one of the most powerful clips of any interview. It's on mortality. I have recently been reading the correspondence between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Adams discusses it. As did his son John Quincy in his diaries. I'll add Mr. Loury's comments to that pantheon. Worth the view. https://youtu.be/p_8tdVSTf8Q?si=fnECKSL6I2mr0Uyw&t=3490
It isn't only the black communities that are failing. I think it was Julius Wilson who pointed out that the lack of jobs caused community failure. But in addition to factories leaving the cities, the passage of the civil rights act and the associated changes in real estate and the job market allowed the successful blacks to abandon difficult communities for communities with lower crime and better schools. Between automation, globalization, and economic changes, the lower density communities in the US have been experiencing the same effects for the past generation, with jobs and the more talented and skilled workers leaving. The lower density communities are on the same track as the inner city, just two generations behind. But getting investment (either in cities or lower density areas) is far harder than before - factories don't need all that much unskilled labor, and the skilled labor (of all races) are abandoning the impacted communities. And without the example of the successful individuals and families, youth are far less likely to transition to a productive and successful life.
A reasonable success path would be
High School - Military Service - Police / firefighter
Which is pretty much what both my son-in-law and his father from rural Utah did.
This is great. I think many of your readers know that the majority of Black people are middle-class and there are plenty of neighborhoods where the mayhem does not exist.
But let me take one example. Chicago's Mayor Johnson, I believe, cancelled a contract for something called "shot spotter".......a frequency device that through high frequency would alert police where shootings were taking place real time. The Mayor cancelled the contract (but only after the Democratic Convention). Apparently the frequencies were anti-Kendi and anti-equity because again and again the racist frequencies pointed to minority areas.
So the means are there, but the ideology and will among progressives, not just right-wingers, is lacking.
Tyler Cowen is one of the best interviewers around besides being a noted economist in his own right. And Mr. Loury deserves to be interviewed by one of the best. I hope it doesn't take long for viewers of the Glenn Show to see how Mr. Cowen (again, an economist) knows how to ask a short, simple, very good question and then get out of the way for the real expert to answer. More "journalists" should take note of his style.
Malcolm X was right about two things: 1. The “political immaturity” of black America 2. The inability of blacks (as a whole, or political body) to understand that gratuitousness and flattery from the establishment is actually a source of great harm not good.
Take for example the prevalence of slavery talk. I can’t think of a greater source of political *disenfranchisement than to tell a community that A) its problems go back to before electricity, B) none of the existing leaders they elect can overcome these forces. Okay so why vote?
And just look at the state of entertainment. These communities have been so failed by shit 60’s leadership/bureacracy that they create fiction and entertainment (e.g., Wakanda Forever) to keep black morale up. Instead of *actual achievement and results.
The inevitability of woke was that goodwill on race issues would eventually run out. Precisely as the consequences of woke policies drive black America further into the ground.
Only political maturity can fix this. Nothing else I can do until this maturity is realized.
But I will say this: whites need to look at signal vs. noise. When a community has been voting unanimously Democrat for 60 years, the language and framework for expressing their discontent will be framed in Democrat terms. Many whites hear increasing race rhetoric as a threat, but it’s more an internal dialogue that fails to be better articulated. Just give it time and still treat people with respect.
People who blame blacks for the ‘anti-social’ or ‘disfunction’ of Omar, don’t understand what has been done to the black family, and black church, by the welfare state and waves of capitalist exploitation. Slavery and liberation from it, was a unique historical event, that made the free black Americans farmers into a people, a new nation, after the civil war. This is just as it did with the Jews. Then came 40 years of dessert wandering and centuries of war.
We would all do well to get control of our baser instincts
I’d like to understand better the women reproducing with Omar.
Can I call your wife Omar and comment on your take on Omar's reply to you? IMHO, most of all that Omar espouses is due to government interference, both federal and at state level. What is happening in our society today can be traced to the War on Poverty. 22% out of wedlock births before the WoP to 77% today. Gee, what could go wrong with that? I just wish you and those of your ilk (and I'm not talking about your skin color) would talk about that and discuss a program on how to get away from the WoP debacle.
On a side note, has Omar actually read any of Thomas Sowell? He has addressed all of Omar's concerns in his writings.
And lastly, how about you and John discuss Thomas Sowell. I would like to hear any criticism either you have about his writings.