Not sure why black conservatives like to blame welfare for the absence of the black father. Their argument seems backwards to me. It's not like a whole bunch of black guys decided to leave home or black women decided to kick them out because they had financial assistance. Given the racism that was going on (the further back in time you go, the worse it was), years of frustration, abuse, poverty, unemployment and cycle of violence, it's no wonder young black men these days are acting up, dying or going to prison. Doesn't help that the church and family help the women out while expecting men to be the breadwinners. Talk about constant pressure, something's gotta give.
At the 1963 March on Washington (for Jobs and Freedom), many held placards that read “We March for Jobs for All Now”.
Jobs+Families+Schools+Safety. I think these are all necessary for building a healthy, functional community.
Jobs are the foundation, and are especially important for men. Work gives one a sense of dignity and purpose. Without jobs, men don't form families. Two-parent Families are a super power, economically and psychologically. Families produce children, thus the community needs Schools. Supporting every good school are lots of healthy families, and lots of Moms and Dads. And there must be public Safety, for workplaces, schools, and families to thrive. There you have it: Jobs+Families+Schools+Safety.
If you want to destroy a community, take away the jobs. The rest naturally crumbles. Approx 70% of Americans do not have a college education. We need jobs for them. But starting in the 1990's, corporate America moved many of those jobs overseas. One of the corporate icons of this movement was (ironically) named Jobs.
As an 80 something year old, white man, I can never hope to understand the problem, let alone offer a solution, but the tragic circumstances of many inner-city Black people, especially the youth, weigh heavily on my mind. I am heartened to learn about the work of Mr. Woodson and his colleagues. It makes a great deal of sense to me that the solution must come from within the community, everything else just rings hollow. But there doesn’t seem to be a way to leverage that approach so that it reaches a lot of families and tip the scale to transform an entire community. That said, if there is a way, I am beginning to believe that Mr. Woodson will find it. Please keep this effort going, because in my opinion, it addresses one of the most important issues of our time, and it is being ignored by our so called, “Black Leaders”, and no politician will go near it.
Anybody like to share their thoughts on this quote......?
Malcolm X said: “The white liberals, who have been posing as our friends, have failed us. The white liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the black man.” “White liberals are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the black man as our ‘friend’ to get our sympathy, our allegiance and our minds.
Tom Sowell 'intellectuals and society'...'vision of the anointed'... If only the black community would treat white liberals like the French treated Marie Antoinette they might be able to make some progress... The 20 richest ZIP codes in America are overwhelmingly white liberal Democrats who slather salve on their guilt in the form of condescending social programs aimed at struggling communities all the while sipping champagne from their gated country club MC mansions and talking about the poor, ignorant Under classes... Hyperbolic? Of course. But uncomfortably close to reality.
I appreciate your framing of the issue in the introduction:
>> The former (parental absenteeism) is surely a weakness, the latter (informal networks) is surely a strength. And yet they’re both parts of a *single complex* of behaviors, attitudes, and patterns that all of us — Bob Woodson, Robert Cherry, Beth Feeley, and I — want to change. <<
I grew up with the pillars of cultural relativism as way of understanding inequality in American society. The version we were fed in high school was that other groups were simply undervalued relative to the dominant (white) culture. For example, the absence of literature was offset by a rich oral tradition; the value of rote learning could be appraised against creativity and spontaneity; and so on. As an adult I still find this outlook meaningful insofar as American diversity is rich and we should value all of it. Indeed, we should give praise where due, especially as it engenders the virtue of pride. However, we cannot expect that by emphasizing only the positive elements of a culture, we will close the persistent development gaps, particularly as we move toward a more global society.
On this topic, I have always thought it important to ask: what do you do when one positive trait is in direct opposition to another? We take this notion for granted, for example, in the realm of romantic partners: it is unreasonable to seek both passion and stability simultaneously. Along these lines, I worry that lauding the strengths of poor communities often serves as a facile substitute for the work required to develop their full capacity.
"...It isn't that people have pathologies; they don't have the resources. They don't have the right support in getting out from under those circumstances. And if you layer on drugs, crime, you layer on a couple of things, it's overwhelming in many ways. If you talk to those people, many of those mothers, let's say, they're not pathological. They're overwhelmed. They make bad choices. They don't have resources. They don't have support..."
Here's the problem: if you're going to use this you have to use it across the board. The white racist isn't pathological. He also has a lot of reasons for his choices and behaviors. If applied consistently, The "there aren't pathologies" school of thought is self defeating.
Love, trust and literacy are the most impactful "privileges." Wealth can make it easier to help kids feel secure and loved, but race has nothing to do with raising strong confident children.. Nobody really tries to prove it does. They just conflate socio-economic data with race data.
A young teacher I know tells me her high school students in an almost all black school are routinely angry, like to fight, are routinely high. I asked her why are they so angry? She said, "because they have no hope." Also, she said, some, perhaps many, say they expect to be killed young, so they see no reason to learn. So I propose that we give a few children hope in a small way in grade school and high school, but OUTSIDE the public school system, which is a rotten pumpkin. I suggest we teach a few grade school kids to play softball in the alley and make it possible for a few kids to do this, give them the minimum bats and balls and teach them pitchers hands are out and how to solve sports disputes themselves to keep the games going. Grade school kids need to play. The possibility of regular play can give them hope. I suggest we put on regular, public dances in the black community for high school kids, informal clothes, nothing fancy, not school-related though perhaps in school gyms, and we ask the men and women in the community to do security for the dance with metal detectors and protect it by publicly, visibly surrounding it. High school children need to dance so boys and girls can relate to each other normally. When the inevitable violence occurs, deal with it, grieve it, and have another dance, and keep going. As Mother Teresa said, "Start with one."
According to McLanahan and Sandefur, children of single-parent households are at increased risk of dropping out of high school. In the book's findings, boys tended to be idle and teenage girls had a greater risk of pregnancy. ... These children have a higher likelihood of being poor, committing crimes or using drugs.Nov 16, 2017
In 2011, it was reported that 72% of black babies were born to unmarried mothers. As of 2015, at 77.3 percent, black Americans have the highest rate of non-marital births among native Americans.
I have been a volunteer for "Habitat for Humanity." Most of our clients are minority, single mothers. Their resilience, determination and optimism really tug at one's emotional strings. This is the side that should be featured more and praised and established as an example of black hope and progress.
Interesting conversation. Thank you for sharing. Three different perspectives with three different emphasis... Glenn focusing on the propositional aspects of the problem while Robert concentrates on the procedural adjuncts to solve specifics and Bob focusing on the organic participatory solutions... Three aspects of trying to solve the same problem... The only debate I saw was in the focus of time and resources... Looked like a pretty healthy conversation...
White people should just shut up. Anything you say, no matter how benign puts others on the defensive.
You all keep asking the same questions and keep getting the same non-answers. Start asking different questions. Look for new entry points to the problem. Have you even accurately identified the problems?
I'm just an old white woman who wishes things were different, but can't do anything but ponder. The debate was interesting, and I have no doubt multiple approaches are a good idea. My mind connected the term "cure" to Star Parker's CURE, and I tend to agree with her approach on many things.
I think the "war on poverty" in the '60s did a disservice to many, the black community especially. A couple of months back, when the Tulsa Race Massacre was the topic, I did some Googling to read more about it. I had heard of it, but not much.
One thing I found struck me. On History (dot) com, an article describing "Black Wall Street," before the massacre happened, showed me an entirely different picture from what we generally see now. "Greenwood District, with a population of 10,000 at the time, had thrived as the epicenter of African American business and culture, particularly on bustling Greenwood Avenue, commonly known as Black Wall Street." While the article doesn't go into a lot of detail, we already know that the family was much more intact at the time. As a community, from what I could tell, it was rather self-sufficient. A real community, with neighbors helping neighbors.
Maybe I'm a bit callous, but I tend to think that other people can't help nearly as much as they can help each other. Lend a hand, yes. Maybe start something, but then leave it to the community?
A real education, without kids taunting other kids who want to learn, would be a great thing. School choice, and/or the old "little red schoolhouse," perhaps? Almost anything other than what our public schools are doing.
I guess the main things for me are questions: how do we get black families intact, again, and how can we teach children properly?
Not sure why black conservatives like to blame welfare for the absence of the black father. Their argument seems backwards to me. It's not like a whole bunch of black guys decided to leave home or black women decided to kick them out because they had financial assistance. Given the racism that was going on (the further back in time you go, the worse it was), years of frustration, abuse, poverty, unemployment and cycle of violence, it's no wonder young black men these days are acting up, dying or going to prison. Doesn't help that the church and family help the women out while expecting men to be the breadwinners. Talk about constant pressure, something's gotta give.
At the 1963 March on Washington (for Jobs and Freedom), many held placards that read “We March for Jobs for All Now”.
Jobs+Families+Schools+Safety. I think these are all necessary for building a healthy, functional community.
Jobs are the foundation, and are especially important for men. Work gives one a sense of dignity and purpose. Without jobs, men don't form families. Two-parent Families are a super power, economically and psychologically. Families produce children, thus the community needs Schools. Supporting every good school are lots of healthy families, and lots of Moms and Dads. And there must be public Safety, for workplaces, schools, and families to thrive. There you have it: Jobs+Families+Schools+Safety.
If you want to destroy a community, take away the jobs. The rest naturally crumbles. Approx 70% of Americans do not have a college education. We need jobs for them. But starting in the 1990's, corporate America moved many of those jobs overseas. One of the corporate icons of this movement was (ironically) named Jobs.
As an 80 something year old, white man, I can never hope to understand the problem, let alone offer a solution, but the tragic circumstances of many inner-city Black people, especially the youth, weigh heavily on my mind. I am heartened to learn about the work of Mr. Woodson and his colleagues. It makes a great deal of sense to me that the solution must come from within the community, everything else just rings hollow. But there doesn’t seem to be a way to leverage that approach so that it reaches a lot of families and tip the scale to transform an entire community. That said, if there is a way, I am beginning to believe that Mr. Woodson will find it. Please keep this effort going, because in my opinion, it addresses one of the most important issues of our time, and it is being ignored by our so called, “Black Leaders”, and no politician will go near it.
Anybody like to share their thoughts on this quote......?
Malcolm X said: “The white liberals, who have been posing as our friends, have failed us. The white liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the black man.” “White liberals are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the black man as our ‘friend’ to get our sympathy, our allegiance and our minds.
Tom Sowell 'intellectuals and society'...'vision of the anointed'... If only the black community would treat white liberals like the French treated Marie Antoinette they might be able to make some progress... The 20 richest ZIP codes in America are overwhelmingly white liberal Democrats who slather salve on their guilt in the form of condescending social programs aimed at struggling communities all the while sipping champagne from their gated country club MC mansions and talking about the poor, ignorant Under classes... Hyperbolic? Of course. But uncomfortably close to reality.
How come people like Senator Tim Scott is not used as a success story instead of selling out to white culture?
I've never understood this mentality.
If our stated goal is to improve peoples lives, then why isn't that the priority instead of finding a solution through a party allegiance first?
Why add another burden, hurdle to overcome, it only makes the goal harder to achieve.
Dear Glenn,
I appreciate your framing of the issue in the introduction:
>> The former (parental absenteeism) is surely a weakness, the latter (informal networks) is surely a strength. And yet they’re both parts of a *single complex* of behaviors, attitudes, and patterns that all of us — Bob Woodson, Robert Cherry, Beth Feeley, and I — want to change. <<
I grew up with the pillars of cultural relativism as way of understanding inequality in American society. The version we were fed in high school was that other groups were simply undervalued relative to the dominant (white) culture. For example, the absence of literature was offset by a rich oral tradition; the value of rote learning could be appraised against creativity and spontaneity; and so on. As an adult I still find this outlook meaningful insofar as American diversity is rich and we should value all of it. Indeed, we should give praise where due, especially as it engenders the virtue of pride. However, we cannot expect that by emphasizing only the positive elements of a culture, we will close the persistent development gaps, particularly as we move toward a more global society.
On this topic, I have always thought it important to ask: what do you do when one positive trait is in direct opposition to another? We take this notion for granted, for example, in the realm of romantic partners: it is unreasonable to seek both passion and stability simultaneously. Along these lines, I worry that lauding the strengths of poor communities often serves as a facile substitute for the work required to develop their full capacity.
Kind regards,
Eli
"...It isn't that people have pathologies; they don't have the resources. They don't have the right support in getting out from under those circumstances. And if you layer on drugs, crime, you layer on a couple of things, it's overwhelming in many ways. If you talk to those people, many of those mothers, let's say, they're not pathological. They're overwhelmed. They make bad choices. They don't have resources. They don't have support..."
Here's the problem: if you're going to use this you have to use it across the board. The white racist isn't pathological. He also has a lot of reasons for his choices and behaviors. If applied consistently, The "there aren't pathologies" school of thought is self defeating.
Love, trust and literacy are the most impactful "privileges." Wealth can make it easier to help kids feel secure and loved, but race has nothing to do with raising strong confident children.. Nobody really tries to prove it does. They just conflate socio-economic data with race data.
A young teacher I know tells me her high school students in an almost all black school are routinely angry, like to fight, are routinely high. I asked her why are they so angry? She said, "because they have no hope." Also, she said, some, perhaps many, say they expect to be killed young, so they see no reason to learn. So I propose that we give a few children hope in a small way in grade school and high school, but OUTSIDE the public school system, which is a rotten pumpkin. I suggest we teach a few grade school kids to play softball in the alley and make it possible for a few kids to do this, give them the minimum bats and balls and teach them pitchers hands are out and how to solve sports disputes themselves to keep the games going. Grade school kids need to play. The possibility of regular play can give them hope. I suggest we put on regular, public dances in the black community for high school kids, informal clothes, nothing fancy, not school-related though perhaps in school gyms, and we ask the men and women in the community to do security for the dance with metal detectors and protect it by publicly, visibly surrounding it. High school children need to dance so boys and girls can relate to each other normally. When the inevitable violence occurs, deal with it, grieve it, and have another dance, and keep going. As Mother Teresa said, "Start with one."
According to McLanahan and Sandefur, children of single-parent households are at increased risk of dropping out of high school. In the book's findings, boys tended to be idle and teenage girls had a greater risk of pregnancy. ... These children have a higher likelihood of being poor, committing crimes or using drugs.Nov 16, 2017
In 2011, it was reported that 72% of black babies were born to unmarried mothers. As of 2015, at 77.3 percent, black Americans have the highest rate of non-marital births among native Americans.
There lies their collective problem. It ain't gonna change soon because of too many government handouts for "unwed".
When you pay single mothers to have more children don't be surprised if you have a lot of single mothers with a lot of children.
I have been a volunteer for "Habitat for Humanity." Most of our clients are minority, single mothers. Their resilience, determination and optimism really tug at one's emotional strings. This is the side that should be featured more and praised and established as an example of black hope and progress.
Interesting conversation. Thank you for sharing. Three different perspectives with three different emphasis... Glenn focusing on the propositional aspects of the problem while Robert concentrates on the procedural adjuncts to solve specifics and Bob focusing on the organic participatory solutions... Three aspects of trying to solve the same problem... The only debate I saw was in the focus of time and resources... Looked like a pretty healthy conversation...
I mean no disrespect but two suggestions:
White people should just shut up. Anything you say, no matter how benign puts others on the defensive.
You all keep asking the same questions and keep getting the same non-answers. Start asking different questions. Look for new entry points to the problem. Have you even accurately identified the problems?
I'm just an old white woman who wishes things were different, but can't do anything but ponder. The debate was interesting, and I have no doubt multiple approaches are a good idea. My mind connected the term "cure" to Star Parker's CURE, and I tend to agree with her approach on many things.
I think the "war on poverty" in the '60s did a disservice to many, the black community especially. A couple of months back, when the Tulsa Race Massacre was the topic, I did some Googling to read more about it. I had heard of it, but not much.
One thing I found struck me. On History (dot) com, an article describing "Black Wall Street," before the massacre happened, showed me an entirely different picture from what we generally see now. "Greenwood District, with a population of 10,000 at the time, had thrived as the epicenter of African American business and culture, particularly on bustling Greenwood Avenue, commonly known as Black Wall Street." While the article doesn't go into a lot of detail, we already know that the family was much more intact at the time. As a community, from what I could tell, it was rather self-sufficient. A real community, with neighbors helping neighbors.
Maybe I'm a bit callous, but I tend to think that other people can't help nearly as much as they can help each other. Lend a hand, yes. Maybe start something, but then leave it to the community?
A real education, without kids taunting other kids who want to learn, would be a great thing. School choice, and/or the old "little red schoolhouse," perhaps? Almost anything other than what our public schools are doing.
I guess the main things for me are questions: how do we get black families intact, again, and how can we teach children properly?