I cannot believe the depth & breadth of TDS....the hatred , fear, loathing, and whatever other negative emotions toward him, IMEO, are QUITE unhinged and out of proportion...as well as the willful blindness toward the foibles faults and negative acts of many Democrat pols....All idols or the models used to construct them, have feet of wood, clay, or plaster of Paris...Partially admirable Kennedy men, even JFK, held very chauvinistic, denigrating, and harmful attitudes, and practices, to their wives, love interests, and sex partners. Cut the crap...don't get me started on the women whose sole voting criterion is abortion until birth. A generation or two ago, such women & their comrades were calling our Viet Nam vets "Baby Killers"...how ironic!
The Progressive, Woke, Left Wing Extremists have hijacked the Democrat Party. It may become the end of the party.
Get a life, get a GRIP! on reality, civility & collaborative/cooperative policies & efforts.
Yesterday, I posted the following on the earlier Loury post “Did John Say That?”
“John. How you feeling these days about your fever dream regarding Trump? Now a 55 year old firefighter is dead and kids have lost their father. An apology is insufficient, if you were even considering one. A proper response would be to hand over your wealth and pension to the Comperatore family, and live a life of poverty. “
And, no, I don’t want John cancelled. I generally love his perspective. But he totally f’d up this time. He needs to offer reparations to the Comperatores, as do the other prominent slime balls calling for the Trump assasination
If I understood it correctly, I thought Professor Early’s point about Claudine Gay was pretty perverse. It seems like it boiled down to “it’s good that her status as a black woman prevented her from suffering the same professional consequences for her plagiarism etc. as another person who isn’t a member of that group would have.”
If my reading is correct, that seems like a baffling position, especially given the remarks he had just made about the performance he observed while in university of a number of presumed beneficiaries of affirmative action.
Dr. Loury, because John is your friend as well as conversation partner, I'm not sure you'll be able to do a good job questioning him. And, I'm very sorry to say, you are what we progressives refer to as "an extreme right winger." We need an unbiased person. I suggest you step aside for a week and let Joy Reid interview John. Or, if she's too busy, maybe Morning Joe and Mika. I heard they have some free time.
We need an emergency episode with John. He needs to “come to Jesus” with his Trump assassination comments. We almost saw Trump killed on national television. John needs to atone for his comments or be prepared to defend political violence. He was wrong as rain and I expect this thoughtful man to own up to his mistakes.
I'd rather not hear anything from McWhorter's insufferably pompous mouth anymore. Another example of a really smart person being really really stupid. What else should be expected from a New Yorker who writes for the NYT and teaches at Columbia. I may unsubscribe.
Glenn Loury wrote, "John McWhorter and I will discuss the incident, along with the controversial comments John made about assassination, for the following episode, which we plan to release to subscribers on Monday, July 22." As the Zen Master said, "we'll see". I want John McWhorter to be charged with the relevant felony crime stipulated for this crime. He called for the assassinatin of DJT and that is a crime. John should be asked what would he plead if charged. His plea will tell us everything about his character. My advice to John, settle your business affairs and surrepticiously move to Canada, while you can. Alternatively, plead insanity due to Trump Derangement Syndrome, you will be believed. I certainly will. However, if you do decide to plead guity, you will regain limited respect. John, why are you so bloody stupid?
I hope John can reflect on what happened, on his own horrifying words, and recognize what happens when we dehumanize those we dislike/hate/disagree with. I am praying for supernatural peace amid such evil.
I hate being a troll on this subject. But John can go f himself and I dont care what he has to say on the subject of the assassination attempt. He has agreed and promoted the behavior of weaponizing the judicial system against Trump and has wished someone would kill him. He has normalized this type of behavior and thought process. He claims Trump and his supporters should be admonished for normalizing the likes of Trump… well… I have news for you John… you are normalizing far worse behaviors that will destroy this country whose fruits you have enjoyed tenfold.
I have yet to hear why John hates trump so much. What the heck has Trump done? Is it just the fact that he squeezed a pussy or two? In that case why is it ok for the likes of Glenn to sin a little. No one is without sin when it comes to Eros.
John is surely chastened, and he will apologize profusely tomorrow. But what John said is something millions have likewise joked about, casually, among friends, usually in jest or a gallows-humor sort of way, perhaps over drinks.
John's mistake was get riled up in convo and say it in a recorded conversation. And nowadays, if you're a public person and you fuck up one time by expressing yourself poorly, or you have a bad moment, and it's recorded, your enemies will use it against you.
Whereas I think that it's usually best to be graceful, or charitable, to those whose poor moments are recorded or caught on video. (It depends, of course, on what we're talking about.) But keep in mind: John already apologized, a week or two ago!
And John, if you're reading this, I've been following you for decades -- I attended your DuBois lectures at Harvard's Barker Center -- and I enjoy your column and this podcast. What happened is that while emotional on the subject of Trump (who in my view is the most malignant character in US history) you said something impolitic. Not a big deal, in my view.
I'm sure that if Trump had been assassinated, our country would be convulsed, there would likely be reprisals and violence. It would be scary! I'm glad the bullet missed. But I sure wouldn't be upset if Donald Trump had a brain aneurism.
Unfortunately, Trump will probably emerge from this stronger than ever. He'll be more crazed, and more radical. If possible, his diehard followers will now be even more fanatical. HIs approval ratings are about to soar. (Just that iconic photo alone -- which will go down in history -- will help him immensely.) The Dems chances of defeating him are worse than before.
Some will say, "You're talking about politics, after an assassination attempt of a presidential candidate?" Yep, I sure am! Because I want Trump gone. He is a cruel, corrupt, lawless, mendacious, wanna-be authoritarian, nearly devoid of redeeming qualities (except, occasionally, being funny). Re-elected, he would plunge this country into chaos, and he would weaken us all. So, the sooner Trump is gone (by which I mean dead, hopefully from natural causes) the better. When Trump dies (or, better yet, in my fantasy, after first going to jail) I will be overjoyed! Rounds will be on me!
John apologized while at the same time basically doubled down to n what he said. My contention with him on this subject is not just this one incident. He has repeatedly and in earnest said that the very institutions he claims Trump would destroy should be bent, circumvented or destroyed in hopes of keeping Trump from being elected. I am voicing my displeasure with him that has been growing for a couple of years now. I am not the only one who feels this way. He ha admitted to being duplicitous to achieve his desired goals, I could go on and on. I to have enjoyed what he has said many times. Woke Racism was a great analysis of what was happening post Floyd to our society (which just a few months after it was published he starts backtracking on) I can go on…
MJS, I recall him saying he regretted what he said about Trump being assassinated -- that's what I thought we were talking about.
As to the other question: I'm likewise inclined to agree with John. The conflict between Trump and his supporters has always been so grossly asymmetrical.
In any clash (personal, physical, or political), if one side is willing to fight much dirtier than the other, the dirty fighter has a big advantage. And Trump played dirtier than anyone. He and his enablers have never hesitated to transgress propriety, and bulldoze over rules, customs and laws. It's been an uneven contest. Many books have chronicled how awful, dishonest, and unethical Trump is, and they ways he's warped institutions to serve him, personally. He's incapable of shame.
Trump tried to bribe Zelensky to launch a phony investigation into Biden. He tried to overturn the results of the last election. He's among the most demagogic and corrupt politicians in history. And he keeps getting away with it all, thanks in part to corruption in our justice system, which Trump has helped engineer. I could go on (and on) of course.
So what, we're supposed to be upset that Alvin Bragg launched a creative criminal prosecution, or that the media didn't talk about Hunter's laptop? Are you also bummed out that Al Capone only went to jail for tax evasion and bootlegging?
He said he regretted saying it on the podcast. Not regretting saying it. He also said he has said it multiple times in private. That is my contention. Intellectuals who think it is ok to break laws and resort to political violence because they don’t like an opponent… no bueno. All the things you accuse Trump of doing… Biden has done before Trump was even president.
Yeah...will be 'interesting' to hear what McWhorter has to say. Pretty clear he's been pretty far up his own ass for awhile. And maybe not quite as intelligent as I once gave him credit for.
"Controversial" comments? That seems a feeble and irresponsible understatement. How about "egregious," "unforgivable," "vicious," unhinged," "heinous" or the like, as the appropriate adjective?
I recall him already apologizing a week or two ago, and what he said then made sense.
John, if you're reading this: Your critics smell blood. They want you to debase yourself, and go overboard, and even then, they'll never be satisfied. (I think you know this.)
John apologized for saying what he did publicly, not necessarily for having such thoughts to begin with. As far as I can gather, your views are somewhat similar except that rather than wishing for Trump to be assassinated, you're praying that he has a heart attack instead.
The rest of us are dismayed that we live in a country where so many people wish that their political opponents were dead. Personally, I would never wish anyone in this country to be dead no matter how much I disagreed with their political views. If you truly find Trump's brand of politics to be appalling then you and others should fight vigorously to defeat him in the intellectual arena of ideas. Wishing for an adversary to drop dead is a concession of weakness and incredibly, incredibly lazy.
That's right Yan. A heart attack, an aneurism, or any sort of quick death would be fine. I know that's a controversial and easily criticized statement (it's not something most people feel comfortable expressing) but I don't think it's weak or lazy. If you believe, as I do, that Trump is the most malignant figure in American history, and that he's built a wildly successful mass movement, which is also a cult of personality, that is poised to destroy our democracy, then my thoughts are logical. I think Trump is the most vile character this country has ever produced. I hate him for what he's done already, and I know his pathological narcissism, and incapacity for feeling shame, means he will never stop. Trump is the only American I feel this way about, but yes, I will be pleased when he's dead.
I have absolutely zero desire for him to debase himself. I seriously doubt he regrets what he said (except that others heard it) or the assassination attempt.
Right, and my hunch is that you’re determined to be offended, so there’s not much he could do to mollify you. (After all, you’ve already called his remarks “unforgivable” and suggested that any apology he offers he will ring false.)
I’m relatively new to Substack and I appreciate that conversations are generally civil here. But I detest the tendency of people on social media constantly demanding that others (whom they usually don’t) know apologize for whatever “transgression.” Disagree all you want. But that’s different from
demanding that someone retract, repent or apologize. Most of us welcome disagreements and, sometimes, the opportunity to expand or clarify our remarks. But these demands for apologies are tiresome.
I’ve almost finished your book, Glenn, and my admiration for you has grown tenfold. Even though I do not like Trump and will never vote for the man, I stand with you in your condemnation of the assassination attempt on his life. This is truly abominable behavior, and I only hope that a measured and rational conversation about political differences will follow. I’ve been posting my favorite quote by former Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm, which she wrote in her second book explaining why she visited former Alabama Governor George Wallace in the hospital after he was shot while running for President in 1972. “Belief in the right of another to hold and publicly advocate the contrary point-of-view without having his motives impugned and his character maligned seems to me to be a fundamental tenet of our political system. This tolerance and mutual respect is fundamental to democracy’s survival.”
I cannot believe the depth & breadth of TDS....the hatred , fear, loathing, and whatever other negative emotions toward him, IMEO, are QUITE unhinged and out of proportion...as well as the willful blindness toward the foibles faults and negative acts of many Democrat pols....All idols or the models used to construct them, have feet of wood, clay, or plaster of Paris...Partially admirable Kennedy men, even JFK, held very chauvinistic, denigrating, and harmful attitudes, and practices, to their wives, love interests, and sex partners. Cut the crap...don't get me started on the women whose sole voting criterion is abortion until birth. A generation or two ago, such women & their comrades were calling our Viet Nam vets "Baby Killers"...how ironic!
The Progressive, Woke, Left Wing Extremists have hijacked the Democrat Party. It may become the end of the party.
Get a life, get a GRIP! on reality, civility & collaborative/cooperative policies & efforts.
Yesterday, I posted the following on the earlier Loury post “Did John Say That?”
“John. How you feeling these days about your fever dream regarding Trump? Now a 55 year old firefighter is dead and kids have lost their father. An apology is insufficient, if you were even considering one. A proper response would be to hand over your wealth and pension to the Comperatore family, and live a life of poverty. “
And, no, I don’t want John cancelled. I generally love his perspective. But he totally f’d up this time. He needs to offer reparations to the Comperatores, as do the other prominent slime balls calling for the Trump assasination
If I understood it correctly, I thought Professor Early’s point about Claudine Gay was pretty perverse. It seems like it boiled down to “it’s good that her status as a black woman prevented her from suffering the same professional consequences for her plagiarism etc. as another person who isn’t a member of that group would have.”
If my reading is correct, that seems like a baffling position, especially given the remarks he had just made about the performance he observed while in university of a number of presumed beneficiaries of affirmative action.
Dr. Loury, because John is your friend as well as conversation partner, I'm not sure you'll be able to do a good job questioning him. And, I'm very sorry to say, you are what we progressives refer to as "an extreme right winger." We need an unbiased person. I suggest you step aside for a week and let Joy Reid interview John. Or, if she's too busy, maybe Morning Joe and Mika. I heard they have some free time.
We need an emergency episode with John. He needs to “come to Jesus” with his Trump assassination comments. We almost saw Trump killed on national television. John needs to atone for his comments or be prepared to defend political violence. He was wrong as rain and I expect this thoughtful man to own up to his mistakes.
I'd rather not hear anything from McWhorter's insufferably pompous mouth anymore. Another example of a really smart person being really really stupid. What else should be expected from a New Yorker who writes for the NYT and teaches at Columbia. I may unsubscribe.
Glenn Loury wrote, "John McWhorter and I will discuss the incident, along with the controversial comments John made about assassination, for the following episode, which we plan to release to subscribers on Monday, July 22." As the Zen Master said, "we'll see". I want John McWhorter to be charged with the relevant felony crime stipulated for this crime. He called for the assassinatin of DJT and that is a crime. John should be asked what would he plead if charged. His plea will tell us everything about his character. My advice to John, settle your business affairs and surrepticiously move to Canada, while you can. Alternatively, plead insanity due to Trump Derangement Syndrome, you will be believed. I certainly will. However, if you do decide to plead guity, you will regain limited respect. John, why are you so bloody stupid?
Looking forward to your discussion with John on the 22nd!
I hope John can reflect on what happened, on his own horrifying words, and recognize what happens when we dehumanize those we dislike/hate/disagree with. I am praying for supernatural peace amid such evil.
I hate being a troll on this subject. But John can go f himself and I dont care what he has to say on the subject of the assassination attempt. He has agreed and promoted the behavior of weaponizing the judicial system against Trump and has wished someone would kill him. He has normalized this type of behavior and thought process. He claims Trump and his supporters should be admonished for normalizing the likes of Trump… well… I have news for you John… you are normalizing far worse behaviors that will destroy this country whose fruits you have enjoyed tenfold.
I have yet to hear why John hates trump so much. What the heck has Trump done? Is it just the fact that he squeezed a pussy or two? In that case why is it ok for the likes of Glenn to sin a little. No one is without sin when it comes to Eros.
MJS,
John is surely chastened, and he will apologize profusely tomorrow. But what John said is something millions have likewise joked about, casually, among friends, usually in jest or a gallows-humor sort of way, perhaps over drinks.
John's mistake was get riled up in convo and say it in a recorded conversation. And nowadays, if you're a public person and you fuck up one time by expressing yourself poorly, or you have a bad moment, and it's recorded, your enemies will use it against you.
Whereas I think that it's usually best to be graceful, or charitable, to those whose poor moments are recorded or caught on video. (It depends, of course, on what we're talking about.) But keep in mind: John already apologized, a week or two ago!
And John, if you're reading this, I've been following you for decades -- I attended your DuBois lectures at Harvard's Barker Center -- and I enjoy your column and this podcast. What happened is that while emotional on the subject of Trump (who in my view is the most malignant character in US history) you said something impolitic. Not a big deal, in my view.
I'm sure that if Trump had been assassinated, our country would be convulsed, there would likely be reprisals and violence. It would be scary! I'm glad the bullet missed. But I sure wouldn't be upset if Donald Trump had a brain aneurism.
Unfortunately, Trump will probably emerge from this stronger than ever. He'll be more crazed, and more radical. If possible, his diehard followers will now be even more fanatical. HIs approval ratings are about to soar. (Just that iconic photo alone -- which will go down in history -- will help him immensely.) The Dems chances of defeating him are worse than before.
Some will say, "You're talking about politics, after an assassination attempt of a presidential candidate?" Yep, I sure am! Because I want Trump gone. He is a cruel, corrupt, lawless, mendacious, wanna-be authoritarian, nearly devoid of redeeming qualities (except, occasionally, being funny). Re-elected, he would plunge this country into chaos, and he would weaken us all. So, the sooner Trump is gone (by which I mean dead, hopefully from natural causes) the better. When Trump dies (or, better yet, in my fantasy, after first going to jail) I will be overjoyed! Rounds will be on me!
Utterly, wholly, and completely unhinged. You, my guy, ARE the problem, all the while blinded, and worse, thinking you are some sort of solution. Smfh
John apologized while at the same time basically doubled down to n what he said. My contention with him on this subject is not just this one incident. He has repeatedly and in earnest said that the very institutions he claims Trump would destroy should be bent, circumvented or destroyed in hopes of keeping Trump from being elected. I am voicing my displeasure with him that has been growing for a couple of years now. I am not the only one who feels this way. He ha admitted to being duplicitous to achieve his desired goals, I could go on and on. I to have enjoyed what he has said many times. Woke Racism was a great analysis of what was happening post Floyd to our society (which just a few months after it was published he starts backtracking on) I can go on…
MJS, I recall him saying he regretted what he said about Trump being assassinated -- that's what I thought we were talking about.
As to the other question: I'm likewise inclined to agree with John. The conflict between Trump and his supporters has always been so grossly asymmetrical.
In any clash (personal, physical, or political), if one side is willing to fight much dirtier than the other, the dirty fighter has a big advantage. And Trump played dirtier than anyone. He and his enablers have never hesitated to transgress propriety, and bulldoze over rules, customs and laws. It's been an uneven contest. Many books have chronicled how awful, dishonest, and unethical Trump is, and they ways he's warped institutions to serve him, personally. He's incapable of shame.
Trump tried to bribe Zelensky to launch a phony investigation into Biden. He tried to overturn the results of the last election. He's among the most demagogic and corrupt politicians in history. And he keeps getting away with it all, thanks in part to corruption in our justice system, which Trump has helped engineer. I could go on (and on) of course.
So what, we're supposed to be upset that Alvin Bragg launched a creative criminal prosecution, or that the media didn't talk about Hunter's laptop? Are you also bummed out that Al Capone only went to jail for tax evasion and bootlegging?
He said he regretted saying it on the podcast. Not regretting saying it. He also said he has said it multiple times in private. That is my contention. Intellectuals who think it is ok to break laws and resort to political violence because they don’t like an opponent… no bueno. All the things you accuse Trump of doing… Biden has done before Trump was even president.
Yeah...will be 'interesting' to hear what McWhorter has to say. Pretty clear he's been pretty far up his own ass for awhile. And maybe not quite as intelligent as I once gave him credit for.
Glenn, you look good after your surgery. It looks like you've lost some weight. It's a never ending struggle for some of us.
"Controversial" comments? That seems a feeble and irresponsible understatement. How about "egregious," "unforgivable," "vicious," unhinged," "heinous" or the like, as the appropriate adjective?
Treasonous?
I recall him already apologizing a week or two ago, and what he said then made sense.
John, if you're reading this: Your critics smell blood. They want you to debase yourself, and go overboard, and even then, they'll never be satisfied. (I think you know this.)
I wish you the best.
John apologized for saying what he did publicly, not necessarily for having such thoughts to begin with. As far as I can gather, your views are somewhat similar except that rather than wishing for Trump to be assassinated, you're praying that he has a heart attack instead.
The rest of us are dismayed that we live in a country where so many people wish that their political opponents were dead. Personally, I would never wish anyone in this country to be dead no matter how much I disagreed with their political views. If you truly find Trump's brand of politics to be appalling then you and others should fight vigorously to defeat him in the intellectual arena of ideas. Wishing for an adversary to drop dead is a concession of weakness and incredibly, incredibly lazy.
That's right Yan. A heart attack, an aneurism, or any sort of quick death would be fine. I know that's a controversial and easily criticized statement (it's not something most people feel comfortable expressing) but I don't think it's weak or lazy. If you believe, as I do, that Trump is the most malignant figure in American history, and that he's built a wildly successful mass movement, which is also a cult of personality, that is poised to destroy our democracy, then my thoughts are logical. I think Trump is the most vile character this country has ever produced. I hate him for what he's done already, and I know his pathological narcissism, and incapacity for feeling shame, means he will never stop. Trump is the only American I feel this way about, but yes, I will be pleased when he's dead.
I have absolutely zero desire for him to debase himself. I seriously doubt he regrets what he said (except that others heard it) or the assassination attempt.
Right, and my hunch is that you’re determined to be offended, so there’s not much he could do to mollify you. (After all, you’ve already called his remarks “unforgivable” and suggested that any apology he offers he will ring false.)
I’m relatively new to Substack and I appreciate that conversations are generally civil here. But I detest the tendency of people on social media constantly demanding that others (whom they usually don’t) know apologize for whatever “transgression.” Disagree all you want. But that’s different from
demanding that someone retract, repent or apologize. Most of us welcome disagreements and, sometimes, the opportunity to expand or clarify our remarks. But these demands for apologies are tiresome.
I’ve almost finished your book, Glenn, and my admiration for you has grown tenfold. Even though I do not like Trump and will never vote for the man, I stand with you in your condemnation of the assassination attempt on his life. This is truly abominable behavior, and I only hope that a measured and rational conversation about political differences will follow. I’ve been posting my favorite quote by former Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm, which she wrote in her second book explaining why she visited former Alabama Governor George Wallace in the hospital after he was shot while running for President in 1972. “Belief in the right of another to hold and publicly advocate the contrary point-of-view without having his motives impugned and his character maligned seems to me to be a fundamental tenet of our political system. This tolerance and mutual respect is fundamental to democracy’s survival.”