I have to disagree. The fundamental difference between them is if we are going to live in a society of equal opportunity and fairness for all; or in a society that discriminates and provides preferential treatment based on color. That's a big gulf to cross.
Perhaps it is a matter of interpretation. As far as I could tell, neither of them believed in a purely color blind solution in the short run.
They butted heads about how to get to where they both want to go, short-term and long-term. When Randall said he would happily concede race-based affirmative action for guaranteed quality K through 12 education, that was not light years away from Glenn.
I think my issue is the same as it is every time this topic comes up somewhere. There's a problem of scope here, and Professor Loury kind of touches on it. That is that individuals and groups are apples and oranges. "Black people" or "white people" are not monolithic groups with infinite continuity, and so treating people based on the group dynamic at an individual level is patently unfair. A poor kid is a poor kid. A kid with a bad home life is a kid with a bad home life. A kid at an underperforming school is a kid at an underperforming school. These factors have far more impact on the potential arc of a child or teen than their racial makeup. Using a secondary or tertiary proxy for disadvantage makes no sense when you can simply use the disadvantage itself as the criteria for public policy. I think that the people who advocate for racially-based policies continue to pretend that race is the best criteria because if you were to straight out ask the average person - of any racial background - if it's a good idea to funnel resources towards a wealthier, more socially connected person than to a poorer, less connected person simply because of the races of the two individuals, they would find the question absurd. It's only by pretending that race-based policies are lifting people out of poverty (instead of providing advantage to the already advantaged) that anyone can be sold on those policies.
There is an unstated assumption that in order to have a good life in the US , you need to attend Harvard or one of the other top Ivy schools. Is everyone who has been rejected by Harvard and went to NYU or rejected by NYU and attended one of the SUNY schools a failure, marked for life? Now, if you aspire to sit on the Supreme Court, your chances increase enormously if you graduate from Harvard law school , but even then they are nearly zero.
Just because Randy isn't a meritorious manumission negro sellout. The Asians care more about themselves than Mexicans. Mexicans care more about themselves than Asians. Jews care more about themselves than Arabs. Whites care more about themselves than blacks. Blacks foolishly care more about others than themselves. An empirical fact!
Racism is a competitive relationship between groups for ownership and control of limited resources for wealth and power. Whitey got the headstart. European immigrants came to America for free stuff---2 billion acres of free Indian land plus free African labor to exploit the resources.
Europe was a shithole plagued by diseases that wiped out half its population, extensive poverty and crime, and debauchery (priests raping children). Europe got rid of its undesirables like the criminals and white female whores (i.e., Australian colonization).
Undocumented Hispanics illegally entering the United States are hurting blacks. Billions are being spent on them, wherein that money could be spent on American vets, poor whites, and blacks who sleep on the streets. Black leaders, like the ex-cop, in New York are enabling the demise of black people. He just made a deal with the Atlanta City Council to accept illegal aliens at the cost of 7 million dollars in taxpayer money. There are black meritorious manumission negro clowns on both the left and right.
Furthermore, Glenn Loury returned to the right from the center-left because he felt lonely. Black leaders didn't trust him because of his prior conservative positions. Glenn Loury's incentives? His paymaster is the conservative Manhatten Institute, which was co-founded by a former director of the CIA. He's comforting himself for death like other other negro sellouts.
The British Isles got rid of its inferior crackers in Northern England, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland. Read "CRACKER CULTURE: CELTIC WAYS UN THE OLD SOUTH" by Professor Grady McWhiny. Cracker culture emanating from the old cracker culture in the British dikes had a significant negative impact on the future behavior of Africans.
You may not think of Randy K as a "sell-out", but from my perspective, Randy has played an establishmentarian role to the hilt, including the sour attitude. And he has done well for himself as a result...
It seems that the fund was well intentioned to help those minority business women, but funds like these are a slippery slope because of the exclusive bias. Black culture will always be subjective because they don't have a standard. There are certain groups within the culture who feel excluded from mainstream regardless of how successful they are. So they need special treatment because of their race. That causes them to be focused on just one superficial thing instead of applying themselves and presenting an idea to any venture capital firm for money. Raise your game.
No one ever gave me deference because of my race. That is how I reached grad school. People, mostly whites, did not care about my feelings. So they gave me honest feedback, which helped me get better at what I've been doing.
So I understand both sides of the argument concerning the lawsuit. But doesn't special treatment make people lazy? That doubt is such a huge burden. Do you want to gain something based on merit or just your race???
Here is a link to a video where Shelby Steele speaks about racial identity and freedom.
I didn't make millions on writing books and working for conservative agencies degrading black people. I retired as a correctional counselor after working for the prison industrial complex, where I did my part in tenaciously protecting the security of the institution and community from super predators.
Who said anything about segregation? I live in a small diverse affluent subdivision of 32 homes. 8 families are black. I keep plenty of Bourbon in my bar for the white neighbors to loosen their lips and hips. The white children call me Mr. Monty and love to play baseball and football on my property. It's also a shortcut to their homes after the school buses arrive.
I spend a lot of traveling on the road and cruise ships. We're waiting to get a cancellation on a booked cruise to Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, the Suez Canal, etc. due to the crises in Israel. I enjoy different cultures, histories, and cuisines. I have traveled extensively around the world, including Africa.
There's a distinct difference between segregation and economic [aggregation]. The Koreans own and control the 1 billion dollar black hair products industry, but they will not let black entrepreneurs set up shop in their communities. Why should black people shoot themselves in the foot? That's insanity! Racism is a power relationship, not about liking others or others liking me. Hatred is a waste of energy. Improved black empowerment is good for society in general.
A must-see video---Two young black YouTube hosts, Van Lathan, and Rachel Lindsay, make [meritorious manumission negro] Larry Elder look like an imbecile. Elder quickly loses his composure and confidence. I'm rolling on the floor with uncontrollable laughter, thinking about Glenn Loury's [white fantasy] of colorblindness. And, Glenn goes out of his way to mention the rise of miscegenation. And, speaking out the other side of his mouth (previous TGS comments), Glenn says that the Asians are coming and can't be stopped. Glenn's incentives? On the payroll of his massa? Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele, Thomas Clarence, Hershel Walker, Tim Scott, Candice Owens, etc. The incentives? Ummmm.
Correction: probationary white with an attitude of anti-black. Facts: Chinese weren't codified in the first constitution as 3/5 of a person. The 1857 Dredd Scott Decision reaffirmed that blacks were property and this had nothing to do with the Chinese. The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments changed the legal status of blacks. He related that this is weird. Lol!
Randy Kennedy is a hater, and specuifically is an anti-white bigot. Half a lifetime ago, when we were both at Harvard Law School, Professor Kennedy would wonder out lourd wheter there were ANY "good white people". It necer ocurred to any of the rest of us to ask the same about black people......
Racism isn't about liking someone. It's a competitive relationship between groups for ownership and control of scarce resources for wealth and power. Whitey got the headstart with free Indian land and abundant free black slave labor---the white affirmative action program which redistributed massive generational wealth and power to whites. Neo-slavery was Jim Crow. Poor whites were bamboozled into compensatory whiteness by the white elites without real tangibles. Where I live, poor crackers don't know the difference between Obamacare and ACA. You're in a benign state of white supremacist cognitive dissonance. Europeans created the social construct of race•ism to justify their fuckery all over the world after leaving their caves in Europe. Here you are in a white ivory tower built on a foundation of sand. Europe was a shithole before the transatlantic slave trade: Rampant disease that wiped out half its population, extensive poverty and crime, lack of nature resources, inferior mercantile economies, and rampant debauchery (priests raping children like today). Christianity is a chauvinistic murderous cult as repeatedly supported by the well-documented historical horrors. Now, your con man Fuhrer Donald Trump has you believing that you're victims. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣
The "racist" "competitive relationship" that i personally observed with Randy Kennedy is that he received a plum job at Harvard Law Shool over better qualified teachers of the "wrong" race(s).
I have asked you this before and you consistently refuse to answer, but I am bored so why not try again. What is your vision? Whites are terrible and whites and blacks can never live side by side as equals. Ok. That leaves resegregation as the only answer, right? So if you are running things, how does that look exactly? In practical terms, how do tens of millions of people segregate themselves within the same nation?
Kennedy is an intellectual fraud, no two ways about it. "Inviduous discrimination?!?" The 14th Amendment and the 1964 Civil Rights Act outlaw discrimination, plain and dsimple, not this bizarre "invidious" (bad) discrimination. There is no case law whatsoever that justifies this Kennedy's equally bizarre concept of "collateral" (good) discrimination.
Besides, the statistic and evidence from the Harvard case clearly shows that the discrimination against Asians is directed, not "collateral". When you play the race game, the other side of the "under-represented" coin is "over-represented." Just logic, Randy!
Glenn's patience in the face of Kennedy's word salad onslaught is just superhuman ... hats off!
Technically, Asians come under the first 12 Amendments. Asians were never codified in the first constitution as 3/5 of a person or property. Asians were not legalized slaves. The 1857 Dredd Scott Decision didn't pertain directly to reaffirming that Asians have no rights, to say the least for Mexicans, Arabs, etc. The 13th, 14th, and 14th Amendments corrected the Dredd Scott decision (allowing freed blacks to become American Citizens). Your analysis is flawed and convoluted. The 14th Amendment has been hijacked by corporate America and immigrants with unearned benefits. Crafty Blum used Asians as a pawn to preserve white privilege. He's now involved in sabotaging black female entrepreneur groups from getting special assistance from corporations. You're 100 pounds of manure in a 1-pound bag.
I am having the rare pleasure of having an antagonist make my case more compellingly than I can, here about the low caliber of his argumentation. Did not expect that in this substack!
REPUBLICAN PARTY SOUTHERN STRATEGY. --- "You start out in 1954 by saying, “Ni**er, n**er, ni**er.” By 1968 you can’t say “ni**er”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Ni**er, ni**er.” -- Lee Altwater, GOP STRATEGIST.
You meant to say nigger. Have some balls! My subordinates rescued wannabe PROUD BOYS like you from Aryan Brotherhood prison gang rape. And, the Machiavellian environment was very challenging for white-collar criminals. It was quite an adventure for a particular convicted white psychiatrist whose skills and years of training failed him. He ended up as a 'trick' on the tiers. 🤡
Nice episode. Interesting mix of agreement and disagreement.
Good, solid conversation. Not a vast gulf between them.
I have to disagree. The fundamental difference between them is if we are going to live in a society of equal opportunity and fairness for all; or in a society that discriminates and provides preferential treatment based on color. That's a big gulf to cross.
Perhaps it is a matter of interpretation. As far as I could tell, neither of them believed in a purely color blind solution in the short run.
They butted heads about how to get to where they both want to go, short-term and long-term. When Randall said he would happily concede race-based affirmative action for guaranteed quality K through 12 education, that was not light years away from Glenn.
I think my issue is the same as it is every time this topic comes up somewhere. There's a problem of scope here, and Professor Loury kind of touches on it. That is that individuals and groups are apples and oranges. "Black people" or "white people" are not monolithic groups with infinite continuity, and so treating people based on the group dynamic at an individual level is patently unfair. A poor kid is a poor kid. A kid with a bad home life is a kid with a bad home life. A kid at an underperforming school is a kid at an underperforming school. These factors have far more impact on the potential arc of a child or teen than their racial makeup. Using a secondary or tertiary proxy for disadvantage makes no sense when you can simply use the disadvantage itself as the criteria for public policy. I think that the people who advocate for racially-based policies continue to pretend that race is the best criteria because if you were to straight out ask the average person - of any racial background - if it's a good idea to funnel resources towards a wealthier, more socially connected person than to a poorer, less connected person simply because of the races of the two individuals, they would find the question absurd. It's only by pretending that race-based policies are lifting people out of poverty (instead of providing advantage to the already advantaged) that anyone can be sold on those policies.
There is an unstated assumption that in order to have a good life in the US , you need to attend Harvard or one of the other top Ivy schools. Is everyone who has been rejected by Harvard and went to NYU or rejected by NYU and attended one of the SUNY schools a failure, marked for life? Now, if you aspire to sit on the Supreme Court, your chances increase enormously if you graduate from Harvard law school , but even then they are nearly zero.
Just because Randy isn't a meritorious manumission negro sellout. The Asians care more about themselves than Mexicans. Mexicans care more about themselves than Asians. Jews care more about themselves than Arabs. Whites care more about themselves than blacks. Blacks foolishly care more about others than themselves. An empirical fact!
Racism is a competitive relationship between groups for ownership and control of limited resources for wealth and power. Whitey got the headstart. European immigrants came to America for free stuff---2 billion acres of free Indian land plus free African labor to exploit the resources.
Europe was a shithole plagued by diseases that wiped out half its population, extensive poverty and crime, and debauchery (priests raping children). Europe got rid of its undesirables like the criminals and white female whores (i.e., Australian colonization).
Undocumented Hispanics illegally entering the United States are hurting blacks. Billions are being spent on them, wherein that money could be spent on American vets, poor whites, and blacks who sleep on the streets. Black leaders, like the ex-cop, in New York are enabling the demise of black people. He just made a deal with the Atlanta City Council to accept illegal aliens at the cost of 7 million dollars in taxpayer money. There are black meritorious manumission negro clowns on both the left and right.
Furthermore, Glenn Loury returned to the right from the center-left because he felt lonely. Black leaders didn't trust him because of his prior conservative positions. Glenn Loury's incentives? His paymaster is the conservative Manhatten Institute, which was co-founded by a former director of the CIA. He's comforting himself for death like other other negro sellouts.
The British Isles got rid of its inferior crackers in Northern England, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland. Read "CRACKER CULTURE: CELTIC WAYS UN THE OLD SOUTH" by Professor Grady McWhiny. Cracker culture emanating from the old cracker culture in the British dikes had a significant negative impact on the future behavior of Africans.
You may not think of Randy K as a "sell-out", but from my perspective, Randy has played an establishmentarian role to the hilt, including the sour attitude. And he has done well for himself as a result...
"The Heavy Burden"
Sorry to get back to you so late.
It seems that the fund was well intentioned to help those minority business women, but funds like these are a slippery slope because of the exclusive bias. Black culture will always be subjective because they don't have a standard. There are certain groups within the culture who feel excluded from mainstream regardless of how successful they are. So they need special treatment because of their race. That causes them to be focused on just one superficial thing instead of applying themselves and presenting an idea to any venture capital firm for money. Raise your game.
No one ever gave me deference because of my race. That is how I reached grad school. People, mostly whites, did not care about my feelings. So they gave me honest feedback, which helped me get better at what I've been doing.
So I understand both sides of the argument concerning the lawsuit. But doesn't special treatment make people lazy? That doubt is such a huge burden. Do you want to gain something based on merit or just your race???
Here is a link to a video where Shelby Steele speaks about racial identity and freedom.
https://youtu.be/gvsJc4N1wfA
Very enlightening discussion!
Glenn Loury certainly has an emotional hard-on for Kendi. Donald Trump's flagrant crimes? WTF!
I didn't make millions on writing books and working for conservative agencies degrading black people. I retired as a correctional counselor after working for the prison industrial complex, where I did my part in tenaciously protecting the security of the institution and community from super predators.
Who said anything about segregation? I live in a small diverse affluent subdivision of 32 homes. 8 families are black. I keep plenty of Bourbon in my bar for the white neighbors to loosen their lips and hips. The white children call me Mr. Monty and love to play baseball and football on my property. It's also a shortcut to their homes after the school buses arrive.
I spend a lot of traveling on the road and cruise ships. We're waiting to get a cancellation on a booked cruise to Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, the Suez Canal, etc. due to the crises in Israel. I enjoy different cultures, histories, and cuisines. I have traveled extensively around the world, including Africa.
There's a distinct difference between segregation and economic [aggregation]. The Koreans own and control the 1 billion dollar black hair products industry, but they will not let black entrepreneurs set up shop in their communities. Why should black people shoot themselves in the foot? That's insanity! Racism is a power relationship, not about liking others or others liking me. Hatred is a waste of energy. Improved black empowerment is good for society in general.
A must-see video---Two young black YouTube hosts, Van Lathan, and Rachel Lindsay, make [meritorious manumission negro] Larry Elder look like an imbecile. Elder quickly loses his composure and confidence. I'm rolling on the floor with uncontrollable laughter, thinking about Glenn Loury's [white fantasy] of colorblindness. And, Glenn goes out of his way to mention the rise of miscegenation. And, speaking out the other side of his mouth (previous TGS comments), Glenn says that the Asians are coming and can't be stopped. Glenn's incentives? On the payroll of his massa? Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele, Thomas Clarence, Hershel Walker, Tim Scott, Candice Owens, etc. The incentives? Ummmm.
https://youtu.be/4Uf3vrp7rIk?si=kdy2NvuUnDtWPuAA
Correction: probationary white with an attitude of anti-black. Facts: Chinese weren't codified in the first constitution as 3/5 of a person. The 1857 Dredd Scott Decision reaffirmed that blacks were property and this had nothing to do with the Chinese. The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments changed the legal status of blacks. He related that this is weird. Lol!
Sorry for the typos. My fingers are too wide for this darn thing!
If you excuse my smartphone typos, I'll excuse yours. Lol!!!!
It's a deal!
Randy Kennedy is a hater, and specuifically is an anti-white bigot. Half a lifetime ago, when we were both at Harvard Law School, Professor Kennedy would wonder out lourd wheter there were ANY "good white people". It necer ocurred to any of the rest of us to ask the same about black people......
Racism isn't about liking someone. It's a competitive relationship between groups for ownership and control of scarce resources for wealth and power. Whitey got the headstart with free Indian land and abundant free black slave labor---the white affirmative action program which redistributed massive generational wealth and power to whites. Neo-slavery was Jim Crow. Poor whites were bamboozled into compensatory whiteness by the white elites without real tangibles. Where I live, poor crackers don't know the difference between Obamacare and ACA. You're in a benign state of white supremacist cognitive dissonance. Europeans created the social construct of race•ism to justify their fuckery all over the world after leaving their caves in Europe. Here you are in a white ivory tower built on a foundation of sand. Europe was a shithole before the transatlantic slave trade: Rampant disease that wiped out half its population, extensive poverty and crime, lack of nature resources, inferior mercantile economies, and rampant debauchery (priests raping children like today). Christianity is a chauvinistic murderous cult as repeatedly supported by the well-documented historical horrors. Now, your con man Fuhrer Donald Trump has you believing that you're victims. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣
The "racist" "competitive relationship" that i personally observed with Randy Kennedy is that he received a plum job at Harvard Law Shool over better qualified teachers of the "wrong" race(s).
A Scots-Irishman brutally raped my paternal grandmother with impunity.
Whites have been getting free stuff for centuries following genocidal behavior against native Americans and abundant free African labor and apartheid.
I have asked you this before and you consistently refuse to answer, but I am bored so why not try again. What is your vision? Whites are terrible and whites and blacks can never live side by side as equals. Ok. That leaves resegregation as the only answer, right? So if you are running things, how does that look exactly? In practical terms, how do tens of millions of people segregate themselves within the same nation?
Kennedy is an intellectual fraud, no two ways about it. "Inviduous discrimination?!?" The 14th Amendment and the 1964 Civil Rights Act outlaw discrimination, plain and dsimple, not this bizarre "invidious" (bad) discrimination. There is no case law whatsoever that justifies this Kennedy's equally bizarre concept of "collateral" (good) discrimination.
Besides, the statistic and evidence from the Harvard case clearly shows that the discrimination against Asians is directed, not "collateral". When you play the race game, the other side of the "under-represented" coin is "over-represented." Just logic, Randy!
Glenn's patience in the face of Kennedy's word salad onslaught is just superhuman ... hats off!
Under Mao, 100 million of you died due to starvation, execution, etc. 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Technically, Asians come under the first 12 Amendments. Asians were never codified in the first constitution as 3/5 of a person or property. Asians were not legalized slaves. The 1857 Dredd Scott Decision didn't pertain directly to reaffirming that Asians have no rights, to say the least for Mexicans, Arabs, etc. The 13th, 14th, and 14th Amendments corrected the Dredd Scott decision (allowing freed blacks to become American Citizens). Your analysis is flawed and convoluted. The 14th Amendment has been hijacked by corporate America and immigrants with unearned benefits. Crafty Blum used Asians as a pawn to preserve white privilege. He's now involved in sabotaging black female entrepreneur groups from getting special assistance from corporations. You're 100 pounds of manure in a 1-pound bag.
This comment is so weird I don't even need to reply to it; last statement summarizes the quality of the comment especially well.
I will send you a box of Kotex and a bottle of Midol for the butt-hurt, white boy.
I am having the rare pleasure of having an antagonist make my case more compellingly than I can, here about the low caliber of his argumentation. Did not expect that in this substack!
REPUBLICAN PARTY SOUTHERN STRATEGY. --- "You start out in 1954 by saying, “Ni**er, n**er, ni**er.” By 1968 you can’t say “ni**er”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Ni**er, ni**er.” -- Lee Altwater, GOP STRATEGIST.
"low caliber"
You meant to say nigger. Have some balls! My subordinates rescued wannabe PROUD BOYS like you from Aryan Brotherhood prison gang rape. And, the Machiavellian environment was very challenging for white-collar criminals. It was quite an adventure for a particular convicted white psychiatrist whose skills and years of training failed him. He ended up as a 'trick' on the tiers. 🤡
Someone didn't prepare for a real debate, and it wasn't Loury.