I say yes retire from the sort of blackness that"s ugly, entitled, lazy, opportunistic, always victimized just like I say retire from whiteness that's arrogant, belligerent, better than, opportunistic, ready to put down , cruel, mean ugly and I could go on.... yes I want all that to retire period. But then I don't want everyone to go away, to shut up, become docile and lose their sense of individuality... I want regenerated people with a sense of who they were created to be in all their fullness. into the fullness of who they were created to be in all their humility and competence as in the image of God Himself. . That's what I want period Stomp out the garbage that's made everyone so hateful off in their own tribal corners without the sharing of diverse ways of living... no way. Retire from your crap individually and independently and stop taking it out on others. Stop finding some one to blame. And maybe even curb your appetites and stop being in everyone's face ... show some self restraint and stop creating chaos as a distraction .... Maybe it's time to acknowledge the other folks who for centuries beyond o 4?even double that who were enslaved and in bondage along the Mediterranean the Barbary Coast even Italy .... get a grip and remember a whole enclave of woman and children who were enslaved with in a day by Ottoman Muslims where when the working men in the fishing village came home it was a ghost town ... Acknowledge their pain ... where are their reparations.... buried in history forgotten as if it never happened as it comes up to the 400th anniversary of that nightmare. It's time to close it down and open up reality.
I'm still learning...and you're right ..Framing the question as if consensus could be deduced by reductionist means is looking for a "who" instead of a "what". More broadly said, understanding the answer as a "state of being" rather than a particular category of persons maybe exactly where this conversation has led us and why we need to be talking to one another beyond hyperbole but with comments meant to be taken seriously beyond the veneer, the quips and jabs to stake a claim on the point of view and where it ought to be.Though times closet to us have amplified the slaves isolated to one racial demographic, studies are indicating that along the Barbary Coast, the Mediterranean and Italy the numbers of Christian Whites far exceeded the total numbers of black Africans brought to the Americas over 4 centuries. How is that possible without one mention of it in our history lessons. Or maybe I just missed it?? But i didn’t miss the other demographics put forth, so what gives? As you say, no one can deny in the current milieu there's a racial component but buried beneath the shouting voices, woman painting their naked bodies gold to garner attention out in public to highlight their plight while all the while living behind gates in mansions purchased with the money of sympathetic donors all because it was time to get theirs, suggesting one group matters more than All Lives Mattering because there appears to be facts, figures and demographic statistics behind the Equality of Slavery necessary to add to this story...I can see Sean Penn in his part as Joe Wilson shouting forcefully at his wife " Valerie!, Valerie!, Valerie!,! does that make me right if I shout louder than u" and in their case it was " does that make me right if I'm the WH and I shout a million times louder than you, does that make me right???" Does it make me right if I have more power than you? It’s precisely why we are not a Pure Democracy we are a Republic so we can balance the powers with the hope of denying potential Mob Rule. In the case of Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame they lied about them and what they did, in the Equality of Slavery they have lied through the power of omission. Yes, as you rightfully said Slavery includes a racial component and perhaps even more so a religious component and an ethnic component.... Waking sleeping giants can change the course of history. Maybe it’s time. The bullies have been on the field way too long.
The great Monamatarpa empire with its capital at the Zimbabwe ruins, Zimbabwe, traded in the commodity of 'black slaves'. Arab traders, headquartered in Zanzibar were the buyers. Millions of blacks were sold into slavery, not by whites, by blacks. That is the reality. As small asidee is that the great Freddie Mercury a.k.a Farrokh Bulsara, was born in Zanzibar and is a descendant of Arab slave traders. People were pheno-typical of their time and it is delusional to try and change history.
"Blackness is not a monolith" is used to fight the reduction of all Black people to the kind of stereotypical victim that would make Stagg R. Leigh a lot of money. People who have any intellectual sophistication will talk about colonization or inherited trauma or plunder instead of victimhood in so many words. A person can be victimized by racial disparities (standard example being the poor medical treatment Serena Williams received when about to have her baby) without the whole story of their life being that they were a victim.
We need to clarify history…. Since you present as competent on the historical timeline I would appreciate your telling me where to begin to collect reliable data….which my gut tells me is important to the status of slavery around the world today. Which historians would you suggest? You may be surprised at just how many well educated folks were surprised by these facts, if indeed true…
Why hasn't this been part of the discussion?? For those among us ncluding me I have NEVER heard this If this is true who perpetrated the lie that it's the big bad white patriarch making them today's target??? If this is true I hope you will take up the responsibility of getting this information out there so that at least in America Hamas can't brainwash everyone especially our college students who hav been Sold a bill of goods.
I come from a people more oppressed and just as enslaved as black Africans - the Irish. We suffered 3 actual genocidal campaigns from the Brits, were enslaved en masse, imprisoned, ethnically cleansed, starved, tortured etc. The 800 years of depredations the Irish suffered are not discussed much in reviews of history and oppression. Somehow, my people's very real suffering is just not as important as that of black or Jewish folks. Huh.
My purpose here is to ask how long am I allowed to hang on to hating the Brits and wanting revolution? Apparently if I was black, my 'history' would make it impossible for me to let go of it. Even if I stop seeing myself as part of a uniquely oppressed class of people, I cannot escape the history of the world, so screw it, I'll just rest in my anger and victimhood. Is that okay? Am I permitted that as a white American of Irish descent?
Most reading this know little of Irish history, and probably have heard of something called "The Potato Famine" in which maybe 1 million Irish died from starvation due to crop failure. Of course, that's all horseshit. 5.2 million Irish died, there are mass graves all over Ireland that attest to this. And oh yeah, the Irish didn't just grow potatoes, in fact, Ireland was Europe's largest exporter of various crops and dairy and beef. The Brits sent 65 regiments that stole multiple harvests, forced us from our homes and into starvation and killed us wantonly. I've actually never heard of anything equivalent done to blacks, or Jews for that matter. We were forced into cannibalism to survive.
Should I start a "movement for justice"? Should I hang on to that hate and the very real effect this 800 years had on Irish people's? From the drinking to dissolute men to the position of women and mothers in the Irish family, all are cultural artifacts of our oppression. Where are my reparations?
Uh, no. My people moved on, built ourselves back up and focused on making a life for ourselves. We even had to allow the British to have part of our country to have peace - what kind of 'justice' is that? According to the standard blacks and Jews seem to live by, I have a 'right' to permanent grievance, yes?
I don't give a shit if black folks 'retire' from race. I do care that the endless whining and grievances going on without relent and seem worse to me today than 50 years ago (I'm 62), and are based on nonsense. Blacks have NO UNIQUE CLAIM TO SUFFERING. Period. Read history, plenty of slaves, plenty of displacement, plenty of legal discrimination - there is nothing unique about any of it. Jews have even less that is 'unique' to whine about. And frankly, I'm fucking tired of it. I'm tired of walking on eggshells, I'm tired of shutting my mouth and not saying what I actually think about all this crap. I'm tired of black folks victimization being shoved at me, and I'm disgusted by the industry of black complaint and demands that many blacks and whites seem happy to have created and perpetuate.
I'll share a lil story that is relevant. I was in NYC for a biz trip as an independent consultant and ended up mistakenly booking myself into a hostel style Airbnb. Turned out to be fun, kind of like a dorm setup. A mother/daughter from Sweden were staying there during their vacation to NYC, their first to the U.S. They seemed like average middle class Swedes, not terribly political either. They wanted to talk to me about how shocked they were about what they saw in the U.S..
Based on what they had heard in their media, they expected the U.S. to be RIVEN with racial strife and hatred. But she observed that in reality, in NYC, black, brown, yellow, white people were all around her nonstop on the streets with no obvious tension. In fact she noted that she couldn't believe how open everyone seemed to others and saw no incidents of racial hatred or bigotry, not even a hint of it. They were shocked, they saw the reality of American society was better than most other countries and that she couldn't imagine a society that seemed more tolerant of different races/ethnicities etc.
Huh. But then again, just listen to one of what must be thousands of professional black complainers and race hucksters speak. and you'll know why she believed that. You'd believe that black folks were being whipped in the streets by white folks. But of course the opposite is true. Acts of actual racism resulting in harm to blacks are so rare that activists have to make up fake race crimes. Wilfred Reilly found that more than 1 in 3 public claims of 'race crime' are hoaxes ginned up by activists, lol. And then when I look at the actual incidents of 'RACISM' often they are no more than hostile comments. We have to look at blacks to see large scale race motivated violence, by black folks against whites or Asians. Research "The Knockout Game", look at the videos of it on Youtube - it's all black people randomly smashing some white person or Asian person out of the blue. Wanna get really crazy? Research Colin Flaherty's work on black violence and crime, particularly that committed by 'black youth' and how it's ignored, not reported and given a pass by schools and LE. His book "White Girl Bleed Alot" is so shocking - cuz it's true.
We now live in a moral inversion in which Blacks commit far more hate crimes and racially motivated crimes than any other group, but they aren't held to account for it. Black rates of violent crime are absurdly high, compared to any other race/ethnic group in the U.S., and blacks are responsible for as much as 60% of total violent crime in the U.S.. while only 13% of the population. And I'm supposed to care whether you want to resign from talking about race etc? Like who gives a shit - yes? Here's a suggestion. Stop being victims, stop being fuckups and ridiculously violent. Instead, build a culture that is admirable and productive. You'll see that 'racism' fades into the background very quickly. That's what my people did, the Irish. And we have elevated ourselves and restored our nation as a result.
Or continue to wallow in the BS and be professional victims. Cuz that's what it means to be black in the U.S. today. Here's another insight, something most whites won't dare ever say. None of this is impressive, none of this redounds to black folks standing positively in our society. Most of us look at the grotesque pop 'black' culture of twerking and gangsta BS and throw up. It's ridiculous but we aren't allowed to say so. Well, I'm done. I do realize Glenn is much more reasonable and not a grifter and fights against much of this, but still, the framing of the conversation comes from the status quo. And it needs to be rejected utterly. In this country, you get your day in court - that's FUCKING IT. We have laws against discrimination in hiring and other institutional aspects of society. Beyond that, nobody cares. That's another thing that most white people won't admit to. You see most of us know this has all become absurd in in our private thoughts, and we just don't care anymore. We are exhausted and tired of the dysfunction of black's in our society. We are tired of being blamed and smeared, and don't really buy most of the race huckstering BS.
Anyone focused on race as a subject in 2024 in the U.S. should move on to do something more productive with their lives. But we seem to be doing the opposite, and have created an entire industry of racial complaint. Enjoy it if that's your thing, but be clear - you are doing no good for anyone.
Sounds like somebody started early with the whiskey today...
Just kidding! Just kidding! Great-grandparents from Dublin and Belfast. I think a lot of people are exhausted by the hyper focus. Other than a political/election strategy, I don't know what the point of it all is.
Wow, I wasn’t aware of this, thanks. And all kidding aside, I believe that Irish drinking is a result of Irish men being denied property ownership and financial security by the Brits systematically. Women become the focal point of the Irish family as a result of so many men not being able to provide and protect, and retreating into drink. 800 years of it has a cost. But hey, it’s just 8,000 Irishmen who died in New Orleans, worked to death essentially. Nobody cares. Well guess what? I do. Accordingly I’m done listening to the endless BS about the unique suffering of Blacks and Jews. The lot of them need to sack up and get on with it.
Why do you keep throwing "Jews" into the mix? Do you think that Jews have benefited from race based policies? Do you think that Jews have sought advantaged treatment because of a history of oppression? Do you have a problem with Jews? If so please explain.
Thank you. This person seems obsessed with the word "unique". I am stunned at the extent to which the fear of antisemitism has been the lowest common denominator of American Jewish consciousness over the last year but it is not always about "unique" but about a story of Jewish history where even the most glitteringly successful Jewish community will eventually be overtaken by intolerance in the country where they live.
Imagine race and the moral imperatives adjacent to its study in the same way an atheist or agnostic might view religion. There are entirely rational, ethical and moral ways to live your life without God. And so there are with race. You don't have to believe in Allah in order to recognize the positive aspects of those who do. One must simply understand that there are millions who took entirely seriously the idea that the significance of race would decline asymptotic to zero, or at least below everyday consideration, and certainly below politically partisan motivations. We are not blind, crippled or crazy.
Surely there are those who crash against secular walls and must find succor elsewhere. We should all be grateful for an open society with freedom of creed. But those who are not unarmed and shot or part of the undeserving poor categorizations of sociologists do not necessarily have compelling reasons to heed the altar calls of the canons of race. There is no reason other than the arbitrary choices influenced by 'lived experience' to give any higher moral standing to those who do for race X than for race Y.
It is true. Race was invented in America to justify second-class citizenship for slaves. So the problem is people using that ancient, pre-modern definition to find themselves today.
There is the so-called African-American mentality that assumes that racial discrimination and prejuduce automatically flows from white privelege to black victimhood. I admit probably justified in the USA. However, I invite a black American male to take his white wife or a white American male his black wife to central Africa and experiuence the cultural prejudice. Race is an iinternational issue and for the foreseeable future will be an issue. African-Americans are fortunate indeed, they don't know how fortunate. I am a 76 year old ex-Rhodesian who has experienced black racial prejudice, I understand it, life is not fair. I harbor no resentments against my fellow man and my biases remain my choice. We live in the real world and we will mix, sometimes it won't be easy and we'll bitch, but in the end it's just the game of life.
Race is a lens. Race is a filter. We can choose to use that lens, apply that filter ... or not....in the same way we can choose to embrace & apply any other particular demographic qualifier: I am short, I’m tall, I’m Jewish, I’m an Atheist, I am a New Yorker, I’m a Bears fan, I’m straight, I’m gay, I’m Black, I’m White, I’m Heinz 57... the list is endless.
Glenn, however, suggests that if that were true. ..."If racial identity is merely a personal choice that can be opted into or out of at will, then (RACE, per se, would have) little political meaning" and would ‘cease to function as an historical phenomenon or a site of familial belonging.’ He tells us that if this were actually the case, then ‘wearing’ race as an identifier (or not) could not possibly be seen as a 'radically unpopular act' (the equivalent of political dissent).
But this is simply untrue.
In fact there are any number of personal identifiers that we can put on or take off at will (like that heavy coat they mentioned) whose use or non-use may very well have significant political/cultural/personal consequences for both the user and his surrounding community.
Prior to October 7th and the terrorist attack by Hamas, the personal choice to publicly identify as Jewish (meaning to do so in such a way that ‘everyone knows’ you’re Jewish) probably carried minimal significance...and minimal risk. Post 10/7, to wear the Jewish faith as a personal identifier, linking the ‘wearer’ to both the historical phenomenon of Judaism & the at-large Jewish family is to risk, in many cases, personal assault & death. It’s still a personal choice...but it’s a choice which is weighted with potential consequence.
Unlike faith, which tends to be invisible, race is not. But if race is all we see...if race becomes our primary filter...if Race is who I am, first & foremost, then everything which happens to me, happens because of THAT single thing: Race the hammer in a world filled with Racist Nails. As in that now infamous Michelle Obama story told by Tim Constantine: standing in line at an airport, waiting to be processed, a man cuts into line in front of her. Equally, Tim, standing in line at a different airport, at a different time, sees a woman cut into line in front of him. Michelle sees the line-cutting as a racist act; Tim sees it simply as someone being an a**hole. Which explanation makes more sense?
Glenn suggests that even if “every single person in this country stood up and “renounced race”, we would still have the patterns of inequality and the disparities we see today. And this is true. But he goes further and says that such a renunciation would somehow eliminate the “language and set of affiliations that would allow us see those patterns and disparities within the long history of race in the US”. But Why? How could this be true?
The personal choice of any given individual to identify or not identify with any particular demographic impacts only that individual. That choice does not affect our ability to continue to use that demographic identifier to categorize populations or population histories over time. How could it?
Let us assume that no one in the world now identifies as a Nazi. Let us say that every single person’ stood-up, right this very instant and ‘renounced Nazism’. We would still have the patterns of hatred and homicide that characterized Nazis. And, of course, we would still have the language that would allow us to see those patterns within the long history of political movements in the West and the horrors which were WW2. One does not preclude the other.
What a renunciation does do, however...what does happen when ‘every single person’ chooses to refuse the ‘Race’ coat...is that a socio-political door which has been nailed shut for decades, cracks open. In fact the refusal removes a filter that prevented us from seeing a series of harsh & unpleasant truths.
“Why did Joe not graduate from High School?” Occam’s Razor’s judicious use might tell us, Joe didn’t graduate because Joe didn’t study....because Joe can’t write a sentence....because Joe can’t handle arithmetic....because Joe skipped class....because Joe got free passes K-8. That Joe may also be Black is irrelevant except as a demographic qualifier.
If 80% of all non-graduates were Black, we might well ask what is it about the Black experience, the Black family, the Black culture that somehow works against scholastic excellence, but again, the results are owned NOT by the population which shares a color, but by the individuals (like Joe) who failed to study.
Once we know, once we can prove, that systemic racism has been eliminated...that there are no color-based barriers that prevent Joe from attending school, acquiring text books, sitting in class, going to the library....that there are no laws that forbid X,Y, or Z because of Race...that there are no jobs that Joe can’t have because of skin tone.... that the test that Joe failed is not race-centric....then Race as a Personal identifier truly becomes something which is as trivial as height, or weight, or shoe size. The responsibility for Joe’s failure lies with Joe...and perhaps Joe’s family. They don’t lie with a skin color.
100 years from now the answer to the question, 'What does Blackness mean?' will indeed be different from what it was 50 years ago. But that difference must start now.
Great question. It is undoubtedly true. But equally true we could argue that slavery, as it was practiced in the West ... in the 18th & 19th centuries did, indeed, have a racial component....unlike Slavery, as practiced in general, across all cultures and times. We should also note that slavery was also practiced in the mid-20th century as the Japanese enslaved perhaps a million captured Chinese....as the Germans enslaved millions of Jews in forced-labor camps.
The tendency of Man to enslave Man is common, particularly for the first several thousand years of our existence as tribal creature. Conflict, born typically from resource competition, yielded winners & losers. And given the labor-intensive nature of most tasks required of a tribe/community, the enslavement of the losers was an accepted practice.
Also, though, I would suggest that the phrase, 'real problem' is probably too vague (though one which is frequently used).
Ultimately, we are ourselves the 'real problem' almost always. If I am failing....or, perhaps more broadly, failing to thrive.... it's not my color's fault, or my family's fault, or my school's fault, or my employer's fault, or the fault of the 'System'.... it's MY fault. And the question is not: What is the System going to do to fix my life? Rather it is 'What am I going to do to become better?'
Now if we are captives in a forced-labor camp, there's little we can do to change our situation....but with the exception of the Chinese enslavement of the Uyghurs (+1M, it's estimated).... most of us are not and will not be in such a situation.
I'm still learning...and you're right ..Framing the question as if consensus could be deduced by reductionist means is looking for a "who" instead of a "what". More broadly said, understanding the answer as a "state of being" rather than a particular category of persons maybe exactly where this conversation has led us and why we need to be talking to one another beyond hyperbole but with comments meant to be taken seriously beyond the veneer, the quips and jabs to stake a claim on the point of view and where it ought to be.Though times closet to us have amplified the slaves isolated to one racial demographic, studies are indicating that along the Barbary Coast, the Mediterranean and Italy the numbers of Christian Whites far exceeded the total numbers of black Africans brought to the Americas over 4 centuries. How is that possible without one mention of it in our history lessons. Or maybe I just missed it?? But i didn’t miss the other demographics put forth, so what gives? As you say, no one can deny in the current milieu there's a racial component but buried beneath the shouting voices, woman painting their naked bodies gold to garner attention out in public to highlight their plight while all the while living behind gates in mansions purchased with the money of sympathetic donors all because it was time to get theirs, suggesting one group matters more than All Lives Mattering because there appears to be facts, figures and demographic statistics behind the Equality of Slavery necessary to add to this story...I can see Sean Penn in his part as Joe Wilson shouting forcefully at his wife " Valerie!, Valerie!, Valerie!,! does that make me right if I shout louder than u" and in their case it was " does that make me right if I'm the WH and I shout a million times louder than you, does that make me right???" Does it make me right if I have more power than you? It’s precisely why we are not a Pure Democracy we are a Republic so we can balance the powers with the hope of denying potential Mob Rule. In the case of Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame they lied about them and what they did, in the Equality of Slavery they have lied through the power of omission. Yes, as you rightfully said Slavery includes a racial component and perhaps even more so a religious component and an ethnic component.... Waking sleeping giants can change the course of history…Maybe it’s time….The bullies have been on the field way too long.
"Maybe some day we will develop into a society that no longer requires the concept of race. But I don’t think that’s happening any time soon. In fact, we should hope it doesn’t.'
My gosh! Really? We should hope that society never evolves to the point where people do not judge others by the color of their skin, where they were born, or who their parents were?
I greatly appreciate you, follow you on social media, and have learned from you. I am not sure what you're hoping for here. I would think the best place for society to evolve is that we are all homo sapiens — male and female humans—and the best attributes of humans move us all forward.
I guess I’m beginning to realize that until we can see the truth of the whole plethora within the varied groups of issues issues within race, ethnicity, religion, ideology and beyond these, we will stay isolated and effected by… for example do any of you remember Masie Hirono U.S, Senator from Hawaii during the MeToo Kavanaugh hearings for his position on SCOTUS when she pointed to the problem being men and in her words “they should shut up and step up.”
It was stunning and a good surprise we don’t hear much from her these days …. So many men feel like if they are successful they are put upon if their not successful enough their put upon it’s crazy already
The headline did get my hopes up and did get me to click. "There's still mass incarceration... and inequality..." Are we to remember that all the black guys in prison were put there by an evil societal "pipeline", not a succession of a bunch of crimes, arrest for just one or two of those crimes, then luckily sufficient evidence for charges to be brought and then a conviction to be won from a jury? The ratio of black on Asian versus Asian on black crime is about 50:1. I'm not confused when I see a black man pointing out that he'd rather retire from being associated with that. Frankly, it has nothing to do with his life. It took me decades to retire from being German. I sympathize, really and truly, whether or not you'd consider an equivalency between collective victims and collective perpetrators a bizarre proposition. What Hitchens said about religion is truer about identity politics: it spoils everything. Identity isn't chosen and it's an unavoidable reality but, as Woody Allen pointed out in a different time and context, "so is acid rain".
What is this video meaning to tell me? Yes, slavery was extremely common and was ended mostly by the efforts of European people, after they were the worst offenders, after the Arabs were the worst etc. Now what?
The tragedy about men in prison is that very few grew up with a father in their life.
Yes, you can do the regressive worm hole, but maybe it is time to get behind men. The binary way in which we discuss every goal in society is ultimately our undoing.
Native Americans have legit ongoing complaints and issues that our country created. Jews do not. In fact, they are importing their troubles brought on by their aggression in Palestine into the U.S.. I'd rather they all left if they continue to want the U.S. to support their grotesque campaign in Palestine.
There certainly may be a lot of ignorance to go around unfortunately….Perhaps from it all, facts from history most were never taught, facts never highlighted or buried: 8,000’Irishmen dead in New Orleans or soon to be the 400th anniversary of the fishing settlement of south-west Ireland when the village men set sail early to work on a day when the sun gave them 16 hours of light only to return to find their woman, children and others gone, vanished ar the hands of Muslim Ottoman Slave Masters from the Barbary Coast of Africa, taken onto their boats sailing them away never to be seen again while at the same time millions vanished along the Mediterranean Sea and Italy….Systematic enslavement and bondage of Christian whites whose numbers far exceed the 4 centuries of slave trade to the Americas and is agreed upon as historical fact by all scholars….yet somehow buried in the archives til now…..As for my original reaction to Glenn Loury’s “Retirement from Slavery” piece there would appear to be good sound historical reason for him to do so in the face of all he knows to be true as orated by this teacher in the short below:
and by Micheal Copeland in his piece “What happened in Baltimore”
As well as the Professor Emeritus from Ohio State in his years of research
All those whose work is getting buried by the louder voices…..the squeaky wheels aligning with those who they believe to be the powerful regardless of their damaging policies, factually damaging policies…. And as you so aptly put it the ignorant….adding to that the cowards, the people too scared to speak in case they get a thought somewhat wrong or worse bullied by faceless loudmouths determined to silence the public as they bellow “Shut up”
It was nearly the longest day of the year, June 20th, when the menfolk of the English fishing settlement of Baltimore in south-west Ireland, set off for a full day out at sea. The year was 1631, the weather good.
When the men returned they were faced with a hideous and life-changing shock. The village was empty: wives and families gone. While they had been out fishing a marauding force of armed muslim Ottoman slavers from the Barbary coast of North Africa had landed, taken everyone as slaves, and sailed away.
So it's only a problem if Jewish people lose their homes and lives and personhood? Not for Arab Muslims? Cuz that's what Zionism did in Palestine. It asserted Jewish statehood as more important than Arab Muslim self determination. The day Israel was declared a state it imposed a govt on 400k Arab Muslims who didn't want it and didn't vote for it. Of course they 'went to war' - that was their right as conquered people. The importation of half a million Jews in 50 years was not coincidental, it was done to facilitate this outcome. Palestinians have very right in the world, the same right the signers of the Declaration of Independence relied on for their break from the Britain.
Of course none of that means I support Hamas. Their attack on Oct 7th invites their destruction. But if one pretends this doesn't occur in the context of the ongoing war, it's just silly. The American people have no problem with the Arab Muslims living in Palestine, nor the Jews. Their fight is not our fight. It's been imported here and is in the center of our politics every day.
Why would you claim my statement is historically inaccurate?
In fact, assimilation has always been an option for people in many different groups - even if it's taboo to mention it or examine its history too deeply.
So too Irish people, fat people, ugly people, beautiful people, Iowans, Big 10 Grads, Southern Baptists, and Swingers (to name but a handful of demographic groups that can retire their self-identifying labels.
We are all vastly more than any label could possibly convey.
Well, except when the Bears are playing, in which case Bears Fans are Bears Fans, and nothing more.
I had the privilege of watching a little bit of the Rickwood Field game on TV and the purpose of that was not to cast Black people as victims but to emphasize that the Negro Leagues were the product of people who loved the game and did what was possible for them to do at the time. If everyone renounced race tomorrow we would see everyone in our past as victims of a delusion called race instead of seeing how they fought for their humanity.
BLM people will then say that racial capitalism is the problem and not slavery. The slavery that existed for thousands of years did not exist so that a few people could use cotton and sugar to get the appearance of being fabulously rich in markets that served European empires.
I am reasonably positive that #BlackLivesMatter means Black lives matter _too_ instead of only Black lives mattering.
I find it more helpful to think about the people I met on Twitter who were involved in Ferguson than everyone who went out into the street in 2020 who were quickly hijacked by their lack of focus.
I say yes retire from the sort of blackness that"s ugly, entitled, lazy, opportunistic, always victimized just like I say retire from whiteness that's arrogant, belligerent, better than, opportunistic, ready to put down , cruel, mean ugly and I could go on.... yes I want all that to retire period. But then I don't want everyone to go away, to shut up, become docile and lose their sense of individuality... I want regenerated people with a sense of who they were created to be in all their fullness. into the fullness of who they were created to be in all their humility and competence as in the image of God Himself. . That's what I want period Stomp out the garbage that's made everyone so hateful off in their own tribal corners without the sharing of diverse ways of living... no way. Retire from your crap individually and independently and stop taking it out on others. Stop finding some one to blame. And maybe even curb your appetites and stop being in everyone's face ... show some self restraint and stop creating chaos as a distraction .... Maybe it's time to acknowledge the other folks who for centuries beyond o 4?even double that who were enslaved and in bondage along the Mediterranean the Barbary Coast even Italy .... get a grip and remember a whole enclave of woman and children who were enslaved with in a day by Ottoman Muslims where when the working men in the fishing village came home it was a ghost town ... Acknowledge their pain ... where are their reparations.... buried in history forgotten as if it never happened as it comes up to the 400th anniversary of that nightmare. It's time to close it down and open up reality.
I'm still learning...and you're right ..Framing the question as if consensus could be deduced by reductionist means is looking for a "who" instead of a "what". More broadly said, understanding the answer as a "state of being" rather than a particular category of persons maybe exactly where this conversation has led us and why we need to be talking to one another beyond hyperbole but with comments meant to be taken seriously beyond the veneer, the quips and jabs to stake a claim on the point of view and where it ought to be.Though times closet to us have amplified the slaves isolated to one racial demographic, studies are indicating that along the Barbary Coast, the Mediterranean and Italy the numbers of Christian Whites far exceeded the total numbers of black Africans brought to the Americas over 4 centuries. How is that possible without one mention of it in our history lessons. Or maybe I just missed it?? But i didn’t miss the other demographics put forth, so what gives? As you say, no one can deny in the current milieu there's a racial component but buried beneath the shouting voices, woman painting their naked bodies gold to garner attention out in public to highlight their plight while all the while living behind gates in mansions purchased with the money of sympathetic donors all because it was time to get theirs, suggesting one group matters more than All Lives Mattering because there appears to be facts, figures and demographic statistics behind the Equality of Slavery necessary to add to this story...I can see Sean Penn in his part as Joe Wilson shouting forcefully at his wife " Valerie!, Valerie!, Valerie!,! does that make me right if I shout louder than u" and in their case it was " does that make me right if I'm the WH and I shout a million times louder than you, does that make me right???" Does it make me right if I have more power than you? It’s precisely why we are not a Pure Democracy we are a Republic so we can balance the powers with the hope of denying potential Mob Rule. In the case of Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame they lied about them and what they did, in the Equality of Slavery they have lied through the power of omission. Yes, as you rightfully said Slavery includes a racial component and perhaps even more so a religious component and an ethnic component.... Waking sleeping giants can change the course of history. Maybe it’s time. The bullies have been on the field way too long.
The great Monamatarpa empire with its capital at the Zimbabwe ruins, Zimbabwe, traded in the commodity of 'black slaves'. Arab traders, headquartered in Zanzibar were the buyers. Millions of blacks were sold into slavery, not by whites, by blacks. That is the reality. As small asidee is that the great Freddie Mercury a.k.a Farrokh Bulsara, was born in Zanzibar and is a descendant of Arab slave traders. People were pheno-typical of their time and it is delusional to try and change history.
Possibly better thought out--
"Blackness is not a monolith" is used to fight the reduction of all Black people to the kind of stereotypical victim that would make Stagg R. Leigh a lot of money. People who have any intellectual sophistication will talk about colonization or inherited trauma or plunder instead of victimhood in so many words. A person can be victimized by racial disparities (standard example being the poor medical treatment Serena Williams received when about to have her baby) without the whole story of their life being that they were a victim.
We need to clarify history…. Since you present as competent on the historical timeline I would appreciate your telling me where to begin to collect reliable data….which my gut tells me is important to the status of slavery around the world today. Which historians would you suggest? You may be surprised at just how many well educated folks were surprised by these facts, if indeed true…
This may be the worst lie perpetuated in this country
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
Why hasn't this been part of the discussion?? For those among us ncluding me I have NEVER heard this If this is true who perpetrated the lie that it's the big bad white patriarch making them today's target??? If this is true I hope you will take up the responsibility of getting this information out there so that at least in America Hamas can't brainwash everyone especially our college students who hav been Sold a bill of goods.
Maybe because the hysteria hasn't told us this, is it true?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
I come from a people more oppressed and just as enslaved as black Africans - the Irish. We suffered 3 actual genocidal campaigns from the Brits, were enslaved en masse, imprisoned, ethnically cleansed, starved, tortured etc. The 800 years of depredations the Irish suffered are not discussed much in reviews of history and oppression. Somehow, my people's very real suffering is just not as important as that of black or Jewish folks. Huh.
My purpose here is to ask how long am I allowed to hang on to hating the Brits and wanting revolution? Apparently if I was black, my 'history' would make it impossible for me to let go of it. Even if I stop seeing myself as part of a uniquely oppressed class of people, I cannot escape the history of the world, so screw it, I'll just rest in my anger and victimhood. Is that okay? Am I permitted that as a white American of Irish descent?
Most reading this know little of Irish history, and probably have heard of something called "The Potato Famine" in which maybe 1 million Irish died from starvation due to crop failure. Of course, that's all horseshit. 5.2 million Irish died, there are mass graves all over Ireland that attest to this. And oh yeah, the Irish didn't just grow potatoes, in fact, Ireland was Europe's largest exporter of various crops and dairy and beef. The Brits sent 65 regiments that stole multiple harvests, forced us from our homes and into starvation and killed us wantonly. I've actually never heard of anything equivalent done to blacks, or Jews for that matter. We were forced into cannibalism to survive.
Should I start a "movement for justice"? Should I hang on to that hate and the very real effect this 800 years had on Irish people's? From the drinking to dissolute men to the position of women and mothers in the Irish family, all are cultural artifacts of our oppression. Where are my reparations?
Uh, no. My people moved on, built ourselves back up and focused on making a life for ourselves. We even had to allow the British to have part of our country to have peace - what kind of 'justice' is that? According to the standard blacks and Jews seem to live by, I have a 'right' to permanent grievance, yes?
I don't give a shit if black folks 'retire' from race. I do care that the endless whining and grievances going on without relent and seem worse to me today than 50 years ago (I'm 62), and are based on nonsense. Blacks have NO UNIQUE CLAIM TO SUFFERING. Period. Read history, plenty of slaves, plenty of displacement, plenty of legal discrimination - there is nothing unique about any of it. Jews have even less that is 'unique' to whine about. And frankly, I'm fucking tired of it. I'm tired of walking on eggshells, I'm tired of shutting my mouth and not saying what I actually think about all this crap. I'm tired of black folks victimization being shoved at me, and I'm disgusted by the industry of black complaint and demands that many blacks and whites seem happy to have created and perpetuate.
I'll share a lil story that is relevant. I was in NYC for a biz trip as an independent consultant and ended up mistakenly booking myself into a hostel style Airbnb. Turned out to be fun, kind of like a dorm setup. A mother/daughter from Sweden were staying there during their vacation to NYC, their first to the U.S. They seemed like average middle class Swedes, not terribly political either. They wanted to talk to me about how shocked they were about what they saw in the U.S..
Based on what they had heard in their media, they expected the U.S. to be RIVEN with racial strife and hatred. But she observed that in reality, in NYC, black, brown, yellow, white people were all around her nonstop on the streets with no obvious tension. In fact she noted that she couldn't believe how open everyone seemed to others and saw no incidents of racial hatred or bigotry, not even a hint of it. They were shocked, they saw the reality of American society was better than most other countries and that she couldn't imagine a society that seemed more tolerant of different races/ethnicities etc.
Huh. But then again, just listen to one of what must be thousands of professional black complainers and race hucksters speak. and you'll know why she believed that. You'd believe that black folks were being whipped in the streets by white folks. But of course the opposite is true. Acts of actual racism resulting in harm to blacks are so rare that activists have to make up fake race crimes. Wilfred Reilly found that more than 1 in 3 public claims of 'race crime' are hoaxes ginned up by activists, lol. And then when I look at the actual incidents of 'RACISM' often they are no more than hostile comments. We have to look at blacks to see large scale race motivated violence, by black folks against whites or Asians. Research "The Knockout Game", look at the videos of it on Youtube - it's all black people randomly smashing some white person or Asian person out of the blue. Wanna get really crazy? Research Colin Flaherty's work on black violence and crime, particularly that committed by 'black youth' and how it's ignored, not reported and given a pass by schools and LE. His book "White Girl Bleed Alot" is so shocking - cuz it's true.
We now live in a moral inversion in which Blacks commit far more hate crimes and racially motivated crimes than any other group, but they aren't held to account for it. Black rates of violent crime are absurdly high, compared to any other race/ethnic group in the U.S., and blacks are responsible for as much as 60% of total violent crime in the U.S.. while only 13% of the population. And I'm supposed to care whether you want to resign from talking about race etc? Like who gives a shit - yes? Here's a suggestion. Stop being victims, stop being fuckups and ridiculously violent. Instead, build a culture that is admirable and productive. You'll see that 'racism' fades into the background very quickly. That's what my people did, the Irish. And we have elevated ourselves and restored our nation as a result.
Or continue to wallow in the BS and be professional victims. Cuz that's what it means to be black in the U.S. today. Here's another insight, something most whites won't dare ever say. None of this is impressive, none of this redounds to black folks standing positively in our society. Most of us look at the grotesque pop 'black' culture of twerking and gangsta BS and throw up. It's ridiculous but we aren't allowed to say so. Well, I'm done. I do realize Glenn is much more reasonable and not a grifter and fights against much of this, but still, the framing of the conversation comes from the status quo. And it needs to be rejected utterly. In this country, you get your day in court - that's FUCKING IT. We have laws against discrimination in hiring and other institutional aspects of society. Beyond that, nobody cares. That's another thing that most white people won't admit to. You see most of us know this has all become absurd in in our private thoughts, and we just don't care anymore. We are exhausted and tired of the dysfunction of black's in our society. We are tired of being blamed and smeared, and don't really buy most of the race huckstering BS.
Anyone focused on race as a subject in 2024 in the U.S. should move on to do something more productive with their lives. But we seem to be doing the opposite, and have created an entire industry of racial complaint. Enjoy it if that's your thing, but be clear - you are doing no good for anyone.
I didn't don know these facts if it's true the targets must change
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
Sounds like somebody started early with the whiskey today...
Just kidding! Just kidding! Great-grandparents from Dublin and Belfast. I think a lot of people are exhausted by the hyper focus. Other than a political/election strategy, I don't know what the point of it all is.
You probably already know this history, but I found it interesting the first time I heard about it: https://www.irishcentral.com/news/8000-irish-died-while-building-the-new-basin-canal-in-new-orleans-231020191-237786681
That's a long post. I'll have to give it a second, more careful reading.
Wow, I wasn’t aware of this, thanks. And all kidding aside, I believe that Irish drinking is a result of Irish men being denied property ownership and financial security by the Brits systematically. Women become the focal point of the Irish family as a result of so many men not being able to provide and protect, and retreating into drink. 800 years of it has a cost. But hey, it’s just 8,000 Irishmen who died in New Orleans, worked to death essentially. Nobody cares. Well guess what? I do. Accordingly I’m done listening to the endless BS about the unique suffering of Blacks and Jews. The lot of them need to sack up and get on with it.
Why do you keep throwing "Jews" into the mix? Do you think that Jews have benefited from race based policies? Do you think that Jews have sought advantaged treatment because of a history of oppression? Do you have a problem with Jews? If so please explain.
Thank you. This person seems obsessed with the word "unique". I am stunned at the extent to which the fear of antisemitism has been the lowest common denominator of American Jewish consciousness over the last year but it is not always about "unique" but about a story of Jewish history where even the most glitteringly successful Jewish community will eventually be overtaken by intolerance in the country where they live.
Imagine race and the moral imperatives adjacent to its study in the same way an atheist or agnostic might view religion. There are entirely rational, ethical and moral ways to live your life without God. And so there are with race. You don't have to believe in Allah in order to recognize the positive aspects of those who do. One must simply understand that there are millions who took entirely seriously the idea that the significance of race would decline asymptotic to zero, or at least below everyday consideration, and certainly below politically partisan motivations. We are not blind, crippled or crazy.
Surely there are those who crash against secular walls and must find succor elsewhere. We should all be grateful for an open society with freedom of creed. But those who are not unarmed and shot or part of the undeserving poor categorizations of sociologists do not necessarily have compelling reasons to heed the altar calls of the canons of race. There is no reason other than the arbitrary choices influenced by 'lived experience' to give any higher moral standing to those who do for race X than for race Y.
Or is the underdog always right?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
If this is true who is the real problem??
It is true. Race was invented in America to justify second-class citizenship for slaves. So the problem is people using that ancient, pre-modern definition to find themselves today.
Why would they want to... it makes no sense
There is the so-called African-American mentality that assumes that racial discrimination and prejuduce automatically flows from white privelege to black victimhood. I admit probably justified in the USA. However, I invite a black American male to take his white wife or a white American male his black wife to central Africa and experiuence the cultural prejudice. Race is an iinternational issue and for the foreseeable future will be an issue. African-Americans are fortunate indeed, they don't know how fortunate. I am a 76 year old ex-Rhodesian who has experienced black racial prejudice, I understand it, life is not fair. I harbor no resentments against my fellow man and my biases remain my choice. We live in the real world and we will mix, sometimes it won't be easy and we'll bitch, but in the end it's just the game of life.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
If this is true who is the real problem??
Race is a lens. Race is a filter. We can choose to use that lens, apply that filter ... or not....in the same way we can choose to embrace & apply any other particular demographic qualifier: I am short, I’m tall, I’m Jewish, I’m an Atheist, I am a New Yorker, I’m a Bears fan, I’m straight, I’m gay, I’m Black, I’m White, I’m Heinz 57... the list is endless.
Glenn, however, suggests that if that were true. ..."If racial identity is merely a personal choice that can be opted into or out of at will, then (RACE, per se, would have) little political meaning" and would ‘cease to function as an historical phenomenon or a site of familial belonging.’ He tells us that if this were actually the case, then ‘wearing’ race as an identifier (or not) could not possibly be seen as a 'radically unpopular act' (the equivalent of political dissent).
But this is simply untrue.
In fact there are any number of personal identifiers that we can put on or take off at will (like that heavy coat they mentioned) whose use or non-use may very well have significant political/cultural/personal consequences for both the user and his surrounding community.
Prior to October 7th and the terrorist attack by Hamas, the personal choice to publicly identify as Jewish (meaning to do so in such a way that ‘everyone knows’ you’re Jewish) probably carried minimal significance...and minimal risk. Post 10/7, to wear the Jewish faith as a personal identifier, linking the ‘wearer’ to both the historical phenomenon of Judaism & the at-large Jewish family is to risk, in many cases, personal assault & death. It’s still a personal choice...but it’s a choice which is weighted with potential consequence.
Unlike faith, which tends to be invisible, race is not. But if race is all we see...if race becomes our primary filter...if Race is who I am, first & foremost, then everything which happens to me, happens because of THAT single thing: Race the hammer in a world filled with Racist Nails. As in that now infamous Michelle Obama story told by Tim Constantine: standing in line at an airport, waiting to be processed, a man cuts into line in front of her. Equally, Tim, standing in line at a different airport, at a different time, sees a woman cut into line in front of him. Michelle sees the line-cutting as a racist act; Tim sees it simply as someone being an a**hole. Which explanation makes more sense?
Glenn suggests that even if “every single person in this country stood up and “renounced race”, we would still have the patterns of inequality and the disparities we see today. And this is true. But he goes further and says that such a renunciation would somehow eliminate the “language and set of affiliations that would allow us see those patterns and disparities within the long history of race in the US”. But Why? How could this be true?
The personal choice of any given individual to identify or not identify with any particular demographic impacts only that individual. That choice does not affect our ability to continue to use that demographic identifier to categorize populations or population histories over time. How could it?
Let us assume that no one in the world now identifies as a Nazi. Let us say that every single person’ stood-up, right this very instant and ‘renounced Nazism’. We would still have the patterns of hatred and homicide that characterized Nazis. And, of course, we would still have the language that would allow us to see those patterns within the long history of political movements in the West and the horrors which were WW2. One does not preclude the other.
What a renunciation does do, however...what does happen when ‘every single person’ chooses to refuse the ‘Race’ coat...is that a socio-political door which has been nailed shut for decades, cracks open. In fact the refusal removes a filter that prevented us from seeing a series of harsh & unpleasant truths.
“Why did Joe not graduate from High School?” Occam’s Razor’s judicious use might tell us, Joe didn’t graduate because Joe didn’t study....because Joe can’t write a sentence....because Joe can’t handle arithmetic....because Joe skipped class....because Joe got free passes K-8. That Joe may also be Black is irrelevant except as a demographic qualifier.
If 80% of all non-graduates were Black, we might well ask what is it about the Black experience, the Black family, the Black culture that somehow works against scholastic excellence, but again, the results are owned NOT by the population which shares a color, but by the individuals (like Joe) who failed to study.
Once we know, once we can prove, that systemic racism has been eliminated...that there are no color-based barriers that prevent Joe from attending school, acquiring text books, sitting in class, going to the library....that there are no laws that forbid X,Y, or Z because of Race...that there are no jobs that Joe can’t have because of skin tone.... that the test that Joe failed is not race-centric....then Race as a Personal identifier truly becomes something which is as trivial as height, or weight, or shoe size. The responsibility for Joe’s failure lies with Joe...and perhaps Joe’s family. They don’t lie with a skin color.
100 years from now the answer to the question, 'What does Blackness mean?' will indeed be different from what it was 50 years ago. But that difference must start now.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
If this is true who is the real problem??
Great question. It is undoubtedly true. But equally true we could argue that slavery, as it was practiced in the West ... in the 18th & 19th centuries did, indeed, have a racial component....unlike Slavery, as practiced in general, across all cultures and times. We should also note that slavery was also practiced in the mid-20th century as the Japanese enslaved perhaps a million captured Chinese....as the Germans enslaved millions of Jews in forced-labor camps.
The tendency of Man to enslave Man is common, particularly for the first several thousand years of our existence as tribal creature. Conflict, born typically from resource competition, yielded winners & losers. And given the labor-intensive nature of most tasks required of a tribe/community, the enslavement of the losers was an accepted practice.
Also, though, I would suggest that the phrase, 'real problem' is probably too vague (though one which is frequently used).
Ultimately, we are ourselves the 'real problem' almost always. If I am failing....or, perhaps more broadly, failing to thrive.... it's not my color's fault, or my family's fault, or my school's fault, or my employer's fault, or the fault of the 'System'.... it's MY fault. And the question is not: What is the System going to do to fix my life? Rather it is 'What am I going to do to become better?'
Now if we are captives in a forced-labor camp, there's little we can do to change our situation....but with the exception of the Chinese enslavement of the Uyghurs (+1M, it's estimated).... most of us are not and will not be in such a situation.
I'm still learning...and you're right ..Framing the question as if consensus could be deduced by reductionist means is looking for a "who" instead of a "what". More broadly said, understanding the answer as a "state of being" rather than a particular category of persons maybe exactly where this conversation has led us and why we need to be talking to one another beyond hyperbole but with comments meant to be taken seriously beyond the veneer, the quips and jabs to stake a claim on the point of view and where it ought to be.Though times closet to us have amplified the slaves isolated to one racial demographic, studies are indicating that along the Barbary Coast, the Mediterranean and Italy the numbers of Christian Whites far exceeded the total numbers of black Africans brought to the Americas over 4 centuries. How is that possible without one mention of it in our history lessons. Or maybe I just missed it?? But i didn’t miss the other demographics put forth, so what gives? As you say, no one can deny in the current milieu there's a racial component but buried beneath the shouting voices, woman painting their naked bodies gold to garner attention out in public to highlight their plight while all the while living behind gates in mansions purchased with the money of sympathetic donors all because it was time to get theirs, suggesting one group matters more than All Lives Mattering because there appears to be facts, figures and demographic statistics behind the Equality of Slavery necessary to add to this story...I can see Sean Penn in his part as Joe Wilson shouting forcefully at his wife " Valerie!, Valerie!, Valerie!,! does that make me right if I shout louder than u" and in their case it was " does that make me right if I'm the WH and I shout a million times louder than you, does that make me right???" Does it make me right if I have more power than you? It’s precisely why we are not a Pure Democracy we are a Republic so we can balance the powers with the hope of denying potential Mob Rule. In the case of Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame they lied about them and what they did, in the Equality of Slavery they have lied through the power of omission. Yes, as you rightfully said Slavery includes a racial component and perhaps even more so a religious component and an ethnic component.... Waking sleeping giants can change the course of history…Maybe it’s time….The bullies have been on the field way too long.
"Maybe some day we will develop into a society that no longer requires the concept of race. But I don’t think that’s happening any time soon. In fact, we should hope it doesn’t.'
My gosh! Really? We should hope that society never evolves to the point where people do not judge others by the color of their skin, where they were born, or who their parents were?
I greatly appreciate you, follow you on social media, and have learned from you. I am not sure what you're hoping for here. I would think the best place for society to evolve is that we are all homo sapiens — male and female humans—and the best attributes of humans move us all forward.
I guess I’m beginning to realize that until we can see the truth of the whole plethora within the varied groups of issues issues within race, ethnicity, religion, ideology and beyond these, we will stay isolated and effected by… for example do any of you remember Masie Hirono U.S, Senator from Hawaii during the MeToo Kavanaugh hearings for his position on SCOTUS when she pointed to the problem being men and in her words “they should shut up and step up.”
https://youtu.be/yO1Jq2rSg1U?si=0-rKQmq7YkietME9
It was stunning and a good surprise we don’t hear much from her these days …. So many men feel like if they are successful they are put upon if their not successful enough their put upon it’s crazy already
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
If this is true who is the real problem??
The headline did get my hopes up and did get me to click. "There's still mass incarceration... and inequality..." Are we to remember that all the black guys in prison were put there by an evil societal "pipeline", not a succession of a bunch of crimes, arrest for just one or two of those crimes, then luckily sufficient evidence for charges to be brought and then a conviction to be won from a jury? The ratio of black on Asian versus Asian on black crime is about 50:1. I'm not confused when I see a black man pointing out that he'd rather retire from being associated with that. Frankly, it has nothing to do with his life. It took me decades to retire from being German. I sympathize, really and truly, whether or not you'd consider an equivalency between collective victims and collective perpetrators a bizarre proposition. What Hitchens said about religion is truer about identity politics: it spoils everything. Identity isn't chosen and it's an unavoidable reality but, as Woody Allen pointed out in a different time and context, "so is acid rain".
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
If this is true who is the real problem??
What is this video meaning to tell me? Yes, slavery was extremely common and was ended mostly by the efforts of European people, after they were the worst offenders, after the Arabs were the worst etc. Now what?
The tragedy about men in prison is that very few grew up with a father in their life.
Yes, you can do the regressive worm hole, but maybe it is time to get behind men. The binary way in which we discuss every goal in society is ultimately our undoing.
Are Jewish people also allowed to "retire"? Or Native Americans?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
If this is true who is the real problem??
Native Americans have legit ongoing complaints and issues that our country created. Jews do not. In fact, they are importing their troubles brought on by their aggression in Palestine into the U.S.. I'd rather they all left if they continue to want the U.S. to support their grotesque campaign in Palestine.
Something tells me your historically uneducated to make such a, what was your word, grotesque statement
There certainly may be a lot of ignorance to go around unfortunately….Perhaps from it all, facts from history most were never taught, facts never highlighted or buried: 8,000’Irishmen dead in New Orleans or soon to be the 400th anniversary of the fishing settlement of south-west Ireland when the village men set sail early to work on a day when the sun gave them 16 hours of light only to return to find their woman, children and others gone, vanished ar the hands of Muslim Ottoman Slave Masters from the Barbary Coast of Africa, taken onto their boats sailing them away never to be seen again while at the same time millions vanished along the Mediterranean Sea and Italy….Systematic enslavement and bondage of Christian whites whose numbers far exceed the 4 centuries of slave trade to the Americas and is agreed upon as historical fact by all scholars….yet somehow buried in the archives til now…..As for my original reaction to Glenn Loury’s “Retirement from Slavery” piece there would appear to be good sound historical reason for him to do so in the face of all he knows to be true as orated by this teacher in the short below:
https://youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
and by Micheal Copeland in his piece “What happened in Baltimore”
As well as the Professor Emeritus from Ohio State in his years of research
All those whose work is getting buried by the louder voices…..the squeaky wheels aligning with those who they believe to be the powerful regardless of their damaging policies, factually damaging policies…. And as you so aptly put it the ignorant….adding to that the cowards, the people too scared to speak in case they get a thought somewhat wrong or worse bullied by faceless loudmouths determined to silence the public as they bellow “Shut up”
It was nearly the longest day of the year, June 20th, when the menfolk of the English fishing settlement of Baltimore in south-west Ireland, set off for a full day out at sea. The year was 1631, the weather good.
When the men returned they were faced with a hideous and life-changing shock. The village was empty: wives and families gone. While they had been out fishing a marauding force of armed muslim Ottoman slavers from the Barbary coast of North Africa had landed, taken everyone as slaves, and sailed away.
Hey genius, you barreled in here quite self assured. Happy to debate any of this with you, and show you up for the ignoramus you are.
So it's only a problem if Jewish people lose their homes and lives and personhood? Not for Arab Muslims? Cuz that's what Zionism did in Palestine. It asserted Jewish statehood as more important than Arab Muslim self determination. The day Israel was declared a state it imposed a govt on 400k Arab Muslims who didn't want it and didn't vote for it. Of course they 'went to war' - that was their right as conquered people. The importation of half a million Jews in 50 years was not coincidental, it was done to facilitate this outcome. Palestinians have very right in the world, the same right the signers of the Declaration of Independence relied on for their break from the Britain.
Of course none of that means I support Hamas. Their attack on Oct 7th invites their destruction. But if one pretends this doesn't occur in the context of the ongoing war, it's just silly. The American people have no problem with the Arab Muslims living in Palestine, nor the Jews. Their fight is not our fight. It's been imported here and is in the center of our politics every day.
Why would you claim my statement is historically inaccurate?
Maybe you are taking the question too literally.
In fact, assimilation has always been an option for people in many different groups - even if it's taboo to mention it or examine its history too deeply.
Taboo may need to be stricken from the record period.
Sure, why not?
So too Irish people, fat people, ugly people, beautiful people, Iowans, Big 10 Grads, Southern Baptists, and Swingers (to name but a handful of demographic groups that can retire their self-identifying labels.
We are all vastly more than any label could possibly convey.
Well, except when the Bears are playing, in which case Bears Fans are Bears Fans, and nothing more.
I just chuckle every time I read the open line of this comment …hilarious today while rereading somehow Louis Armstrong came into my head
lol
I forgot to mention Louis Armstrong was singing the armor hot dog song….fat kids skinny kids kids who climb on rocks…go figure
I had the privilege of watching a little bit of the Rickwood Field game on TV and the purpose of that was not to cast Black people as victims but to emphasize that the Negro Leagues were the product of people who loved the game and did what was possible for them to do at the time. If everyone renounced race tomorrow we would see everyone in our past as victims of a delusion called race instead of seeing how they fought for their humanity.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNGU-487UZ0
If this is true who is the real problem??
BLM people will then say that racial capitalism is the problem and not slavery. The slavery that existed for thousands of years did not exist so that a few people could use cotton and sugar to get the appearance of being fabulously rich in markets that served European empires.
The BLM concept is opportunistic at best a scam at worst ……Everyone else unfortunately got caught in the middle. The outcome? ALM
The Ferguson people such as Kayla Reed, Brittney Packet Cunningham, and Derecka Purnell are still doing activism
* Packnett
I am reasonably positive that #BlackLivesMatter means Black lives matter _too_ instead of only Black lives mattering.
I find it more helpful to think about the people I met on Twitter who were involved in Ferguson than everyone who went out into the street in 2020 who were quickly hijacked by their lack of focus.
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