CHAZ, CHOP, Seattle = Rebellion/Insurrection. A whole section of the United States was overtaken and occupied by ARMED people.
These people stated overtly that they had created an autonomous zone and that the government services that had been ELECTED to serve the actual (American) residents were to be denied: no police, no EMTS, firefighters etc. When not denied, said services had to go through armed checkpoints (i.e. East and West Berlin) to help citizens, obviously delaying emergency services.
The mayor called it a Summer of Love, the governor did nothing. Where was the Washington State National Guard?
A 16 year boy shot and killed, a 14 year old wounded; 3 others murdered - all African AMERICANS. Trash piled up, property destroyed, local businesses crushed, FEAR. - Silence, Denial - Projection: It’s all Trump.
So African Americans being murdered in Seattle, Police Stations attacked and/or burned to the ground in predominantly black neighborhoods throughout the country, riots and “peaceful” demonstrations ruined local businesses that served minority neighborhoods are the product of home grown, right wing (white wing) Maga extremism?! They’re peaceful protests?! Where’s the Righteous Outrage?!
Unarmed people vandalizing parts of Capital; walking within the red ropes of the interior, working with Capital police; the only death being an unarmed female veteran who was exercising the same rights and activities of BLM protestors . That’s the outrage?!
Not in my Back Yard. (DC or Martha’s Vineyard)
The elites of Washington were all about the pursuit of humanity, righteous protest and justice in the wake of George Floyd; nothing was off limits or out of bounds. But, bring it to their neighborhoods and it’s a no go; it’s insurrection, it’s a crime of the worst degree.
Are we to believe that an unarmed group of middle aged, middle class, milk toast Americans (whose protagonist is dressed like the Buffalo Bills Mascot) were a legitimate threat to the most secure region on the planet?! Really?!!!
It’s the being lied to one’s face and being told that they are the problem, where the outrage comes from. It’s about simple respect. It’s the disdain with which The Elect (figuratively and literally) treat the population that drives the outrage of some.
Hubris, arrogance and conceit will trump any legitimate issue the left presents. They are blinded by their own narcissistic glare, from Hollywood, to New York, to Washington where there exists a loop that is The Elect’s Echo Chamber of Self.
Kaiser is wrong, claiming "He was guilty of illegally trying to overturn the results of the election, including the incitement of the insurrection."
1- the election was stolen*. He was legally protesting the stolen election, with a mass Stop The Steal protest.
2- no insurrection. No Trump supporters took up arms and entered the Capitol -- most of the video, censored for 2 years by Dems' J6 smear & coverup investigation, shows peaceful protesters walking in the places the public is usually allowed to go.
To claim "clearly guilty" of incitement to insurrection is self-delusion when none have been charged, much less convicted, of insurrection. Many believe, as I do, that the FBI assets in the crowd did more to incite the illegal trespassing than did Trump -- enabled by Pelosi's deliberately having the minimum number of Capitol Police, rather than accepting the offered additional guards.
>>He used words like "fight" << Silly yet important, MLK often used words like fight to protest, peacefully, for rights. Virtually all politicians do, and I'd be surprised if Kaiser hasn't wanted his side to "fight" for whatever he wanted, and likely even wanted them to fight harder, or smarter.
>>what he wanted was clear enough.<< Trump haters are quick to claim to know motivations, without being willing to state them clearly. Because if Kaiser said: "Trump wanted Pence to choose alternate electors, or send the swing state electors back to the states" it would be clear that it's not an insurrection. If he said "Trump wanted the protesters to kill Pence" that would be arguably libelous; but that's the kind of implied evil Kaiser wants to impute to Trump -- tho most folk would more reasonably claim Trump did NOT want anybody to be killed.
To call it an insurrection is to say the Trump supporters wanted to kill people, which is false false false for most of them, tho likely many Trump haters like to think that's the secret motivation.
*If the negative truth of one candidate is censored so that candidate wins, the election was unfair; unfair elections are stolen from the loser. H. Biden's laptop, and evidence of Biden corruption, was illegally censored to allow Biden to steal the election.
That the election was stolen is a far more true statement than the J6 protest was an insurrection.
Yes. I do hold the same standard. Will find the stat on number of BLM protestors who were arrested and convicted (I live Twin Cities, we still have burned out buildings). If you decide to pursue Civil Disobedience, via property damage and violence, that can and often does come with consequences.
I had the National Guard Stationed within 4 blocks of my house. In the eye of the storm here.
Not sure about all your assertions “now know” examples. But will grant leeway. Even so, if a Fed agent hands a flagpole to me and says, here, gore the security officer… 99.9% certain I would walk away.
I DISAGREE: the modal idiot voter does NOT get to decide that what Trump did wasn't an unlawful interference with the peaceful transfer of power. YOU KNOW that it was and you're acting like Pontius Pilatus here on a daily basis because you want to vote for this miscreant (again), so that policy gets implemented that you believe is more favorable. That's were the willful confusion of the issues originates.
"If you believe that Trump had a hand in fomenting the January 6 riot and directing the rioters to stop the election certification, if you believe his communications with state governments during the ballot counting rise to level of interference, then perhaps you’ll agree with David that he should have been disqualified from the presidency three years ago."
"Believe"? We're prosecuting people based on what progressives BELIEVE? Seriously???
Where I come from, we work form FACTS. If you want to believe, go to church. In court, it's supposed to be about FACTS. Merrick Garland, in spite of his efforts to arrest everyone he can get ahold of, has arrested NO ONE for insurrection. That's a FACT.
This entire farce is just another chapter in the Get Trump enterprise of Pelosi, Garland, Biden and Clinton. THEY should be arrested, persecuted, convicted and imprisoned. What do I base that on? I base it on the fact that my friends and I all BELIEVE that they are guilty and should be thrown in prison. And that's all it takes, anymore.
As Kaiser noted, one of the interesting things about this claim is that the originalist answer is that Trump is disqualified. Those opposed to his disqualification are either making absurdly formalistic textual arguments (Trump isn't an officer) or living constitutionalist arguments.
"But I think what he wanted was clear enough." I do hope that that pov from an observer of televised (taped) proceedings would not convince any jury; even one composed of beltway Hillarys.
I haven't seen any open discussion here about January 6 committee, which is the predicate you want to use for Trump's disqualification. Why put the cart before the horse? Or, if you want to get another dissenting opinion, why not interview Mollie Hemingway who wrote "Rigged" that describes Democrat "fortification" of 2020—the underlying cause of J6. She has plenty of footnotes. Five years of mind-numbing BS about Russia Collusion ought to dispose any thinking person to be skeptical of any Democrat lawfare, but no, we still have the convenient, absurd and disingenuous claims that Trump legally qualifies under the 14th amendment despite the fact that he has not been convicted of "insurrection" or even charged. How can it be responsible to discuss removing, by these obviously quasi-legal means, a candidate who has the support of at least 70 million voters. How can you claim to support democracy?
It's already been established that there were over 200 federal agents in the crown and more dressed as trump supporters in the capital on that day... many of those agents had been for months infiltrating groups and fomenting aggression... the capital police chiefs book makes it clear he was prevented from controlling the crowd by "higher authorities... the whole thing wreaks of a "false flag" and the intellectual crowd is running around with their dresses pulled over their heads clutching pearls and pointing at Trump.. you all are getting played... if this is the best critical thinking we got in this country then we deserve what we get...
As a former Democrat (I unregistered as no doubt many others have), I just simply CANNOT believe this is in any way a discussion, much less an issue. The FACTS are: the DNC finds itself wildly unpopular because it abandoned its voting bloc, and continues to do so despite the obvious; that same DNC , ACTUALLY interfered and colluded with other powerful 'interests' in the last 2 Elections, continues to deny that fact, and isn't being held accountable; that power structure is so corrupt that it deems itself all-knowing and is the ACTUAL cause of cultural and institutional failure on every level; and that same power structure is willing to subvert the US Constitition in order to maintain itself, all the while accusing (projecting!) something else as the cause and threat to the Republic (Trump, populism, nationalism, white supremacy, et al).
Collectively, we are ALL being psychologically fucked with, on a civilizational scale. Does anyone REALLY expect anything other than disastrous consequences for this? I think not.
CHAZ, CHOP, Seattle = Rebellion/Insurrection. A whole section of the United States was overtaken and occupied by ARMED people.
These people stated overtly that they had created an autonomous zone and that the government services that had been ELECTED to serve the actual (American) residents were to be denied: no police, no EMTS, firefighters etc. When not denied, said services had to go through armed checkpoints (i.e. East and West Berlin) to help citizens, obviously delaying emergency services.
The mayor called it a Summer of Love, the governor did nothing. Where was the Washington State National Guard?
A 16 year boy shot and killed, a 14 year old wounded; 3 others murdered - all African AMERICANS. Trash piled up, property destroyed, local businesses crushed, FEAR. - Silence, Denial - Projection: It’s all Trump.
So African Americans being murdered in Seattle, Police Stations attacked and/or burned to the ground in predominantly black neighborhoods throughout the country, riots and “peaceful” demonstrations ruined local businesses that served minority neighborhoods are the product of home grown, right wing (white wing) Maga extremism?! They’re peaceful protests?! Where’s the Righteous Outrage?!
Unarmed people vandalizing parts of Capital; walking within the red ropes of the interior, working with Capital police; the only death being an unarmed female veteran who was exercising the same rights and activities of BLM protestors . That’s the outrage?!
Not in my Back Yard. (DC or Martha’s Vineyard)
The elites of Washington were all about the pursuit of humanity, righteous protest and justice in the wake of George Floyd; nothing was off limits or out of bounds. But, bring it to their neighborhoods and it’s a no go; it’s insurrection, it’s a crime of the worst degree.
Are we to believe that an unarmed group of middle aged, middle class, milk toast Americans (whose protagonist is dressed like the Buffalo Bills Mascot) were a legitimate threat to the most secure region on the planet?! Really?!!!
It’s the being lied to one’s face and being told that they are the problem, where the outrage comes from. It’s about simple respect. It’s the disdain with which The Elect (figuratively and literally) treat the population that drives the outrage of some.
Hubris, arrogance and conceit will trump any legitimate issue the left presents. They are blinded by their own narcissistic glare, from Hollywood, to New York, to Washington where there exists a loop that is The Elect’s Echo Chamber of Self.
Kaiser is wrong, claiming "He was guilty of illegally trying to overturn the results of the election, including the incitement of the insurrection."
1- the election was stolen*. He was legally protesting the stolen election, with a mass Stop The Steal protest.
2- no insurrection. No Trump supporters took up arms and entered the Capitol -- most of the video, censored for 2 years by Dems' J6 smear & coverup investigation, shows peaceful protesters walking in the places the public is usually allowed to go.
To claim "clearly guilty" of incitement to insurrection is self-delusion when none have been charged, much less convicted, of insurrection. Many believe, as I do, that the FBI assets in the crowd did more to incite the illegal trespassing than did Trump -- enabled by Pelosi's deliberately having the minimum number of Capitol Police, rather than accepting the offered additional guards.
>>He used words like "fight" << Silly yet important, MLK often used words like fight to protest, peacefully, for rights. Virtually all politicians do, and I'd be surprised if Kaiser hasn't wanted his side to "fight" for whatever he wanted, and likely even wanted them to fight harder, or smarter.
>>what he wanted was clear enough.<< Trump haters are quick to claim to know motivations, without being willing to state them clearly. Because if Kaiser said: "Trump wanted Pence to choose alternate electors, or send the swing state electors back to the states" it would be clear that it's not an insurrection. If he said "Trump wanted the protesters to kill Pence" that would be arguably libelous; but that's the kind of implied evil Kaiser wants to impute to Trump -- tho most folk would more reasonably claim Trump did NOT want anybody to be killed.
To call it an insurrection is to say the Trump supporters wanted to kill people, which is false false false for most of them, tho likely many Trump haters like to think that's the secret motivation.
*If the negative truth of one candidate is censored so that candidate wins, the election was unfair; unfair elections are stolen from the loser. H. Biden's laptop, and evidence of Biden corruption, was illegally censored to allow Biden to steal the election.
That the election was stolen is a far more true statement than the J6 protest was an insurrection.
This is delusional thinking. Jews are used as tokens or metaphorical enemies and devils that must be destroyed by brown goodness. It’s sick.
Yes. I do hold the same standard. Will find the stat on number of BLM protestors who were arrested and convicted (I live Twin Cities, we still have burned out buildings). If you decide to pursue Civil Disobedience, via property damage and violence, that can and often does come with consequences.
I had the National Guard Stationed within 4 blocks of my house. In the eye of the storm here.
Not sure about all your assertions “now know” examples. But will grant leeway. Even so, if a Fed agent hands a flagpole to me and says, here, gore the security officer… 99.9% certain I would walk away.
I DISAGREE: the modal idiot voter does NOT get to decide that what Trump did wasn't an unlawful interference with the peaceful transfer of power. YOU KNOW that it was and you're acting like Pontius Pilatus here on a daily basis because you want to vote for this miscreant (again), so that policy gets implemented that you believe is more favorable. That's were the willful confusion of the issues originates.
"If you believe that Trump had a hand in fomenting the January 6 riot and directing the rioters to stop the election certification, if you believe his communications with state governments during the ballot counting rise to level of interference, then perhaps you’ll agree with David that he should have been disqualified from the presidency three years ago."
"Believe"? We're prosecuting people based on what progressives BELIEVE? Seriously???
Where I come from, we work form FACTS. If you want to believe, go to church. In court, it's supposed to be about FACTS. Merrick Garland, in spite of his efforts to arrest everyone he can get ahold of, has arrested NO ONE for insurrection. That's a FACT.
This entire farce is just another chapter in the Get Trump enterprise of Pelosi, Garland, Biden and Clinton. THEY should be arrested, persecuted, convicted and imprisoned. What do I base that on? I base it on the fact that my friends and I all BELIEVE that they are guilty and should be thrown in prison. And that's all it takes, anymore.
As Kaiser noted, one of the interesting things about this claim is that the originalist answer is that Trump is disqualified. Those opposed to his disqualification are either making absurdly formalistic textual arguments (Trump isn't an officer) or living constitutionalist arguments.
Try it sucker.
"But I think what he wanted was clear enough." I do hope that that pov from an observer of televised (taped) proceedings would not convince any jury; even one composed of beltway Hillarys.
I haven't seen any open discussion here about January 6 committee, which is the predicate you want to use for Trump's disqualification. Why put the cart before the horse? Or, if you want to get another dissenting opinion, why not interview Mollie Hemingway who wrote "Rigged" that describes Democrat "fortification" of 2020—the underlying cause of J6. She has plenty of footnotes. Five years of mind-numbing BS about Russia Collusion ought to dispose any thinking person to be skeptical of any Democrat lawfare, but no, we still have the convenient, absurd and disingenuous claims that Trump legally qualifies under the 14th amendment despite the fact that he has not been convicted of "insurrection" or even charged. How can it be responsible to discuss removing, by these obviously quasi-legal means, a candidate who has the support of at least 70 million voters. How can you claim to support democracy?
It's already been established that there were over 200 federal agents in the crown and more dressed as trump supporters in the capital on that day... many of those agents had been for months infiltrating groups and fomenting aggression... the capital police chiefs book makes it clear he was prevented from controlling the crowd by "higher authorities... the whole thing wreaks of a "false flag" and the intellectual crowd is running around with their dresses pulled over their heads clutching pearls and pointing at Trump.. you all are getting played... if this is the best critical thinking we got in this country then we deserve what we get...
As a former Democrat (I unregistered as no doubt many others have), I just simply CANNOT believe this is in any way a discussion, much less an issue. The FACTS are: the DNC finds itself wildly unpopular because it abandoned its voting bloc, and continues to do so despite the obvious; that same DNC , ACTUALLY interfered and colluded with other powerful 'interests' in the last 2 Elections, continues to deny that fact, and isn't being held accountable; that power structure is so corrupt that it deems itself all-knowing and is the ACTUAL cause of cultural and institutional failure on every level; and that same power structure is willing to subvert the US Constitition in order to maintain itself, all the while accusing (projecting!) something else as the cause and threat to the Republic (Trump, populism, nationalism, white supremacy, et al).
Collectively, we are ALL being psychologically fucked with, on a civilizational scale. Does anyone REALLY expect anything other than disastrous consequences for this? I think not.