This is a great response to the claim among 'woke antiracists' that 'white supremacy is baked into everything'. I see a *lot* of similarities between black people needing to change how they comport their lives and women who claim 'patriarchy' is baked into everything and holding them back. Asians are *clearly* doing way better than the rest of us despite all that 'white supremacy' stuff, to the point where they may be getting 'whitened' by certain antiracists who assume if they're doing better, it must be because they're really white. When you're as obsessed with skin colour as a Klansman you limit yourself every bit as much as Bubba McCracker.
I agree with what John McWhorter said a week or so ago about Jews: At least some of the anti-Semitism comes from jealousy. How is it they're so good at making money? Because they had to be, living for thousands of years with others who hated them discriminated against them, and wouldn't let them have jobs. So they went into finance, started their own businesses, and learned how to be successful.
Rather than admit to themselves that Jews tend to be more successful because of a lot of cultural history that taught them highly valuable skills they passed on to succeeding generations, non-Jews invent stories about how they're running the world and only look after their own (which they do, but so does every other 'tribe' on the planet).
I disagree with assumptions about racial constructs. Why should we assume that all races should have equal profiles? Different races do not share similar attitudes and cultural values. Since these differ, why would we assume that the measures of social and economic indices would be equal? We certainly do not believe individuals share common skill-sets, attitudes, and aptitudes. Why should we assume that there should be "more" equality when so many folks differ in so many ways?
Consider differences in attitudes -- (Acting White: The Ironic Legacy of Desegregation
by Stuart Buck.) Or, consider the issue of discipline and self-discipline. There are major differences between groups, so why should we assume outcomes should be "equal"?
Fascinating info as always, Mr. Roscoe. Having said that, I notice that all such discussions are limited to the same small number of criteria. I can think of at least 20 additional criteria that may be germane to the discussion but are never mentioned. One example:
I noticed years ago that so many black and latina women were in college that had previously dropped out of school, after bearing two or three kids (often with multiple fathers) they earned GEDs then enrolled in college (where they had to spend at least a semester or two in "remedial classes" before getting up to speed for actual college level work. I doubt that these women had as much of a chance to learn what they needed as someone who went from high school straight to college, and skip motherhood.
Glenn- what do you think could be done to target demographics for economic development? It seems we continually throw money at these problems with little result.
Oversight tends to be local. That lends itself to the continuing problem local systemic problems. Some of them being lack of actual authority, corruption, lack of expertise.... etc.
Would outside control help?
Could you take a group of economists, such as yourself and others, and have a panel that controls resources in a way to make sure that they are being used with a plan? The ability to hire (and fire) various local power brokers? Do it in small areas, such as a specific neighborhood, then expand. Grow the ink dots, so to speak?
I’m not a data scientist BUT it looks like there was already a significant rise in the non-marital birth rate in the ten-year period starting in 1960 and it appears that the trend after 1970 was simply a continuation of that earlier trend. So, while the decline in the prevalence of shotgun marriages may have started a significant decline around 1970, it seems that is far from being the dominant cause in the rise of non-marital birth rates. Some other factor(s) was already at play long before 1970. Am I missing something?
Excellent piece. Validates what Sowell wrote about years ago in his book Wealth, Poverty and Politics.
Couple of comments…until someone or some organization steps up and shows leadership to talk about the importance of education and family on a national and consistent scale, this dynamic will not change in a material manner. The battle will be uphill as the msm and far let refuse to acknowledge the facts. Case in point…the book referenced here where a two parent family is considered a “ privilege”. What family anyone is borne into is beyond their control. However, the left has co opted the word “ privilege”. Privilege my friends, is achievement compounded. Your parents and their parents etc made overall good decisions that got a family to any success. As noted here, Asian parents are ahead of the pack. This goes back to when the first Asian immigrants arrived here with nothing and they realized for their kids to do better, education and family were the keys. Paid off. The msm media never brings up the success of Asian Americans, or the millions of successful black Americans. Add in the mix politicians and teachers unions that are more concerned with staying in power vs the kids education, and the problem gets worse. I’ll wrap up with a question for all to ponder…what if BLM focused on driving the “success sequence” and the importance of family and education into communities vs gender and defund the police issues?
I purchased and am reading “the Two Parent Privilege “. Two comments on it and the subject of family structure. First, it is not just the two parent structure that supports children and family fortune. It is also the 4 grandparent support to that 2 parent family and the generational wealth and support which gets passed down. When the extended family is also two parent strong it is a support that can withstand a lot of pressure. Secondly and maybe related. When I used the phrase of “two parent privilege” with my sister she did not like the phrase. She said it is a right not a privilege for a child to have two parents. I have thought about this and I think I agree with her
Thanks, Roscoe, for the very interesting and well-reserached article. And thanks, Glenn, for sharing the stage with Roscoe. I share the bottom line that family structure, the "success" strategy," a focus on education, etc., are fundamentally important for all Americans. But those who only see the world in terms of white oppression will simply look at the statistics and say, "That's right. And why are the family structures in the black community so out of whack with what seems to succeed? White supremacy, of course." Asian American success will be dismissed as irrelevant because, the argument will go, white Americans don't feel threatened by them, whether because of historical reasons, because white Americans can't focus on anything beyond anti-black racism, or because there just aren't (yet) enough asian Americans to feel trhreatening. While I think then woke answer is essentially circular, it does raise the critical questions of why? Why did black family structure fracture so much in the last 50 years? Why have most but not all whites and even more asian Americans managed (so far) to avoid those problems? What have the many black Americans who have managed to follow the success formula done right and why were they able to do so? How can their success be replicated (channeling Robert Woodson here, I know)?
Clifton, interesting as always. My two cents, I grew up comfortably middle class until my parents divorced. After that, my dad struggled more than he would have liked because of child support and I grew up basically in poverty because my mom (with a college degree) couldn’t find a well paid position for most of my childhood. My elementary school was filled with single mothers, the recently divorced, recent immigrants/refugees, and low-income blue collar workers. Long way of saying, in my opinion the future lies in teaching kids to make better choices than their parents but the need now is to get the kids in poverty the tools (nutritional, emotional, psychological, and educational) that they probably aren’t getting at home.
Interesting but not surprising. Also self perpetuating if poor single mothers are forced to send there children to schools that have neither the ability nor the intention of educating them. In the case of Black children this is structural racism.
One ironic stat in the "equity" conversation is that Black women are the most educated group... How does that reality fit into these observations/outcomes? Are the educated Black women following the success sequence? Are they just not having children at all? Is the negative group effect of not following the success sequence more attributable to the cultural aspects of race+class for lower-income single moms?
This is a great response to the claim among 'woke antiracists' that 'white supremacy is baked into everything'. I see a *lot* of similarities between black people needing to change how they comport their lives and women who claim 'patriarchy' is baked into everything and holding them back. Asians are *clearly* doing way better than the rest of us despite all that 'white supremacy' stuff, to the point where they may be getting 'whitened' by certain antiracists who assume if they're doing better, it must be because they're really white. When you're as obsessed with skin colour as a Klansman you limit yourself every bit as much as Bubba McCracker.
I agree with what John McWhorter said a week or so ago about Jews: At least some of the anti-Semitism comes from jealousy. How is it they're so good at making money? Because they had to be, living for thousands of years with others who hated them discriminated against them, and wouldn't let them have jobs. So they went into finance, started their own businesses, and learned how to be successful.
Rather than admit to themselves that Jews tend to be more successful because of a lot of cultural history that taught them highly valuable skills they passed on to succeeding generations, non-Jews invent stories about how they're running the world and only look after their own (which they do, but so does every other 'tribe' on the planet).
I disagree with assumptions about racial constructs. Why should we assume that all races should have equal profiles? Different races do not share similar attitudes and cultural values. Since these differ, why would we assume that the measures of social and economic indices would be equal? We certainly do not believe individuals share common skill-sets, attitudes, and aptitudes. Why should we assume that there should be "more" equality when so many folks differ in so many ways?
Consider differences in attitudes -- (Acting White: The Ironic Legacy of Desegregation
by Stuart Buck.) Or, consider the issue of discipline and self-discipline. There are major differences between groups, so why should we assume outcomes should be "equal"?
Fascinating info as always, Mr. Roscoe. Having said that, I notice that all such discussions are limited to the same small number of criteria. I can think of at least 20 additional criteria that may be germane to the discussion but are never mentioned. One example:
I noticed years ago that so many black and latina women were in college that had previously dropped out of school, after bearing two or three kids (often with multiple fathers) they earned GEDs then enrolled in college (where they had to spend at least a semester or two in "remedial classes" before getting up to speed for actual college level work. I doubt that these women had as much of a chance to learn what they needed as someone who went from high school straight to college, and skip motherhood.
You are a national treasure
So, the answer is as simple as safe sex and education and god/ morality. Didn’t we already know this 5000 years ago.
Very interesting.
Glenn- what do you think could be done to target demographics for economic development? It seems we continually throw money at these problems with little result.
Oversight tends to be local. That lends itself to the continuing problem local systemic problems. Some of them being lack of actual authority, corruption, lack of expertise.... etc.
Would outside control help?
Could you take a group of economists, such as yourself and others, and have a panel that controls resources in a way to make sure that they are being used with a plan? The ability to hire (and fire) various local power brokers? Do it in small areas, such as a specific neighborhood, then expand. Grow the ink dots, so to speak?
Try to find a model that is flexible but works?
I’m not a data scientist BUT it looks like there was already a significant rise in the non-marital birth rate in the ten-year period starting in 1960 and it appears that the trend after 1970 was simply a continuation of that earlier trend. So, while the decline in the prevalence of shotgun marriages may have started a significant decline around 1970, it seems that is far from being the dominant cause in the rise of non-marital birth rates. Some other factor(s) was already at play long before 1970. Am I missing something?
Excellent piece. Validates what Sowell wrote about years ago in his book Wealth, Poverty and Politics.
Couple of comments…until someone or some organization steps up and shows leadership to talk about the importance of education and family on a national and consistent scale, this dynamic will not change in a material manner. The battle will be uphill as the msm and far let refuse to acknowledge the facts. Case in point…the book referenced here where a two parent family is considered a “ privilege”. What family anyone is borne into is beyond their control. However, the left has co opted the word “ privilege”. Privilege my friends, is achievement compounded. Your parents and their parents etc made overall good decisions that got a family to any success. As noted here, Asian parents are ahead of the pack. This goes back to when the first Asian immigrants arrived here with nothing and they realized for their kids to do better, education and family were the keys. Paid off. The msm media never brings up the success of Asian Americans, or the millions of successful black Americans. Add in the mix politicians and teachers unions that are more concerned with staying in power vs the kids education, and the problem gets worse. I’ll wrap up with a question for all to ponder…what if BLM focused on driving the “success sequence” and the importance of family and education into communities vs gender and defund the police issues?
E
I purchased and am reading “the Two Parent Privilege “. Two comments on it and the subject of family structure. First, it is not just the two parent structure that supports children and family fortune. It is also the 4 grandparent support to that 2 parent family and the generational wealth and support which gets passed down. When the extended family is also two parent strong it is a support that can withstand a lot of pressure. Secondly and maybe related. When I used the phrase of “two parent privilege” with my sister she did not like the phrase. She said it is a right not a privilege for a child to have two parents. I have thought about this and I think I agree with her
Thanks, Roscoe, for the very interesting and well-reserached article. And thanks, Glenn, for sharing the stage with Roscoe. I share the bottom line that family structure, the "success" strategy," a focus on education, etc., are fundamentally important for all Americans. But those who only see the world in terms of white oppression will simply look at the statistics and say, "That's right. And why are the family structures in the black community so out of whack with what seems to succeed? White supremacy, of course." Asian American success will be dismissed as irrelevant because, the argument will go, white Americans don't feel threatened by them, whether because of historical reasons, because white Americans can't focus on anything beyond anti-black racism, or because there just aren't (yet) enough asian Americans to feel trhreatening. While I think then woke answer is essentially circular, it does raise the critical questions of why? Why did black family structure fracture so much in the last 50 years? Why have most but not all whites and even more asian Americans managed (so far) to avoid those problems? What have the many black Americans who have managed to follow the success formula done right and why were they able to do so? How can their success be replicated (channeling Robert Woodson here, I know)?
There is no reason poor people have to go to ineffective schools except government policy. Keep them ignorant poor and dependent on politicians
You're not discussing a problem, you're talking about a dilemma.
This is as good as it gets without holding the individual responsible for their own actions.
Social scientist will get paid to make excuses for their lack of success, while everyone else just passes them by.
Clifton, interesting as always. My two cents, I grew up comfortably middle class until my parents divorced. After that, my dad struggled more than he would have liked because of child support and I grew up basically in poverty because my mom (with a college degree) couldn’t find a well paid position for most of my childhood. My elementary school was filled with single mothers, the recently divorced, recent immigrants/refugees, and low-income blue collar workers. Long way of saying, in my opinion the future lies in teaching kids to make better choices than their parents but the need now is to get the kids in poverty the tools (nutritional, emotional, psychological, and educational) that they probably aren’t getting at home.
Interesting but not surprising. Also self perpetuating if poor single mothers are forced to send there children to schools that have neither the ability nor the intention of educating them. In the case of Black children this is structural racism.
One ironic stat in the "equity" conversation is that Black women are the most educated group... How does that reality fit into these observations/outcomes? Are the educated Black women following the success sequence? Are they just not having children at all? Is the negative group effect of not following the success sequence more attributable to the cultural aspects of race+class for lower-income single moms?